(L) Log Horizon (novel)

[Torayan]

Joining the fray for Log Horizon!

Just finished volume 6...
So the (neo-)tea party evacuated Akiba to take down the murderer? That must have been a hassle. Between the Adventurers and the PeopleoTL, just how many people are living there? I wish Mamare would have described it, since Akiba's management is one of the best aspect of LH imho.

Also, Akiba being 2km wide seems weird. Again, that's really small considering that around 15k adventurers live there normaly. Is that the IRL Akiba ward's real size? (or rather half of it?)

Last point, Overskill really is a new kind of exploit. Twisting the original purpose of a skill by using its new physical properties.
Isn't there an infinity of possible overskills though? Any skill or any combo could be made into an overskill, given some thought and training. I would expect to see a lot more of them in the future, and it would add a whole new dimension to the combat system.

[Lazgrane]

Originally Posted by Iamis

If they could make it, Why would every Village NOT have a guard system? I bet the Landers would pay almost any price to get their hands on one for their village or town, I highly doubt there are only around 30 Cities in Eastal

Magic is not your every-one-can-afford Iphone you know.

Why don't Shiroe just turn every Landers into Adventurer?

Don't overestimate their financial capability while underestimate their intelligent

[mike211]

Originally Posted by Iamis

The Alvs made the Powered Armor, from this its easy to guess that these cities were once populated with Alvs for a variety of reasons

The Landers do know how to make Advanced Magical systems, just not the guard system and powered armors

Choushi and other towns can be destroyed by Monsters, In Kanami's Side story the village Coppelia was at was destroyed by Monsters

If they could make it, Why would every Village NOT have a guard system? I bet the Landers would pay almost any price to get their hands on one for their village or town, I highly doubt there are only around 30 Cities in Eastal

I also highly doubt The Alvs would be willing to share such technology and knowledge since they got massacred, enslaved and other unpleasant things done to them because other races were jealous of their magic technology, In fact They probably Destroyed all knowledge on how to make such things just to spite the victors

You must understand that Elder Tale was originally a game, so the ONLY cities that have the guard systems would be the player respawn cities.
The game creator created it like that, is to prevent newbie from getting PK and let the new player have a safe place to recover. So the only reason why no cities of People of the Land have guard systems was because the CREATOR didn't put it there.

[Rendius]

Originally Posted by Naole

Just as I thought you don't reason like someone versed in any of the core Engineering Disciplines. I take it your a software developer while I'm Legally Certified to be Plant/Production engineering. In RSA we do the best Deep Level Subsurface Engineering in the world and that's part of the background from which I've operated and your best exposure to this kind of thing would be in the Control & Instrumentation Software for the Machinery or do you make nice Apps for for phones & tablets.

Sigh, this is why I didn't want to bring my background into the conversation, because I knew that an ad hominem would find its way here.

For your information, in Canada, Engineering is a strictly regulated discipline.

Spoiler for Irrelevant Information:

Universities cannot offer programs with the word "engineering" unless they adhere to strict standards and course requirements, which include basic knowledge of ALL engineering disciplines; a mech eng is required to take programming courses, a soft eng must take chemistry, physics, biology. After graduation and a few years of experience, you can then take a test to become a Professional Engineer. Engineers, regardless of their discipline, become legally liable for anything they sign off to be constructed, whether it's designs for a new filtration system, or a new software architecture.

Having said all of that, it is irrelevant to this discussion.

I'm willing to bet that the coastal town of Choshi was founded sometime after the adventurers came into the world, as there are absolutely no fortifications to defend against an attack of any sort. Maihama, a city whose total population is comparable to Akihabara, has fortifications, but no barrier system. Surely a city of that size (and possibly considerable wealth) would be wise to invest in the technology? Or did the barrier bankrupt Akiba, which is why it had no government when the adventurers arrived?

EDIT: Wild Goose, Kamui04, DQueenie13, Voceane, and Iamis have said everything that I wanted to say. I feel redundant now.

[Breimoon]

the barriers are hundred of years old so maybe the lost the technology to make it.

[IndexOfIdeas]

1 quick question what is the magic that shiroe used in sandleaf that nureha has mentioned when they met?

[DQueenie13]

Originally Posted by IndexOfIdeas

1 quick question what is the magic that shiroe used in sandleaf that nureha has mentioned when they met?

His Overskill, which is creating new spells using his Scribe subclass; he uses it to revive Rudy and her spies/intel picked up on it.

[aohige]

I wonder if Shiroe ever disclosed it with the Round Table.
If he ever did, then Eins could have leaked the info to Minami.

[Netto Azure]

Interesting. It seems that a RTC member is a spy for Minami according to Vol 7. Kinda sucks that the RTC doesn't have one itself.

[Naole]

Originally Posted by Rendius

Sigh, this is why I didn't want to bring my background into the conversation, because I knew that an ad hominem would find its way here.

Engineering Deg are mostly tailored to the Industrial requiments of the Country;
for example in SA Professional Engineers are recognised by the post-nominal Pr Eng for engineers holding a B.Eng, B.Sc or B.Sc.Eng. with relevant experience; the Experience is built into the the four year program with end of the year internships at approved Companies/Institutions and thus Licencing. However the passing the of Engineers Certificate of Competence Examinations makes one a standing for professional certificated engineer (Pr.Cert.Eng)

I brought this up because you were claiming Competencies you Clearly do not have!

MechEng here are as a matter of course required to take core courses in Electrical, Civil, Structural, metallurgy, Computer Science, Applied Maths for 2-3 years depending on the Institution. I mean I saw merit in completing an additional BSc majoring in Applied Maths, (Pure) Maths & Operations Research and later BSCHons in OR & Applied Math so that I would be on par with Industrial Eng in their core competency. It helped that I didn't take Eng maths and took the full Applied Maths during Eng Deg

Originally Posted by Rendius

I'm willing to bet that the coastal town of Choshi was founded sometime after the adventurers came into the world, as there are absolutely no fortifications to defend against an attack of any sort. Maihama, a city whose total population is comparable to Akihabara, has fortifications, but no barrier system. Surely a city of that size (and possibly considerable wealth) would be wise to invest in the technology? Or did the barrier bankrupt Akiba, which is why it had no government when the adventurers arrived?


EDIT: Wild Goose, Kamui04, DQueenie13, Voceane, and Iamis have said everything that I wanted to say. I feel redundant now.

OMG it's like going around in Circles; am I trapped in a twilight zone? Where does it say that Maihama does not have the system.

And If I'm reading this correctly Chosi does not have defences because it doesn't belong to anyone; no Lord. It's a frontier town!

Is the BT translation wrong?

Originally Posted by Iamis

The Alvs made the Powered Armor, from this its easy to guess that these cities were once populated with Alvs for a variety of reasons

The Landers do know how to make Advanced Magical systems, just not the guard system and powered armors

Choushi and other towns can be destroyed by Monsters, In Kanami's Side story the village Coppelia was at was destroyed by Monsters

If they could make it, Why would every Village NOT have a guard system? I bet the Landers would pay almost any price to get their hands on one for their village or town, I highly doubt there are only around 30 Cities in Eastal

I also highly doubt The Alvs would be willing to share such technology and knowledge since they got massacred, enslaved and other unpleasant things done to them because other races were jealous of their magic technology, In fact They probably Destroyed all knowledge on how to make such things just to spite the victors

Note: (http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/in...me_6_Chapter_5) Part 1

There in plain English it is written "The mobile suits were relics passed down from an ancient era. It was more than a magical item or ancient technology, it was a precursor artifact.
Its capability was beyond the People of the Land technology, the magic of the Adventurers, and even the Kunie clan. It was the crystallization of the lost age."

Note Vol3 chapter 3 part 4 ; http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/in...me_3_Chapter_4

for who built the system and which cities have it

And again (http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/in...me_6_Chapter_3) vol 6 chapter 3 part 2 you get:

Inheriting several technologies of the ancient Alv, they carried out long distance trades without relying on the intercity transport gates. By applying this technology, the Kunie were able to operate banks around the world.
But they were not a banking clan.
Their duty was the management of the Alv's magic techniques.
Although they were best known for running the bank, the Kunie were also in charge of the maintenance of the magic barriers in the League of Freedom Cities Eastal. The 30 odd cities with magic barriers had ancient magic circles built underground to power the defenses of the city. It prevented any monsters from invading and also powered the mobile suits of the guards.
Apart from a few cities that were against the aristocratic system in the Holy Empire Westelande, all the cities in Yamato were supported by the Kunie clan


We can go over and over this until we are blue in the face but it won't change what is written down by the Author

[DQueenie13]

Originally Posted by aohige

I wonder if Shiroe ever disclosed it with the Round Table.
If he ever did, then Eins could have leaked the info to Minami.

Originally Posted by Netto Azure

Interesting. It seems that a RTC member is a spy for Minami according to Vol 7. Kinda sucks that the RTC doesn't have one itself.

Oh, so it's Eins who is the spy for Minami? I suppose he isn't as unimportant as he's been portrayed as up to this point.

[Rendius]

Originally Posted by Naole

I brought this up because you were claiming Competencies you Clearly do not have!

What competencies am I claiming to have, exactly? I've read over my posts again, but I'm drawing a blank. You say A => B, I disagree, I say A => C, you disagree, that's fine. You disagree with A => C because I didn't graduate from your favourite engineering program? Sure, why not. You win! Everyone's very proud of you.

I've tried to be civil, but clearly there's no way to reason with you. I'd like to think that I'm backing my arguments with reasonable historical examples and relevant analogies, flawed as some may be, but in return I'm getting reductio ad absurdum and argumentum ad hominem from you.

Some of us are hypothesizing that Choshi cannot exist without the presence of adventurers, considering that the demi-human menace forced the landers to hide in their fortified cities, and drove many others to cross the seas. It's not a great leap of logic to think that there are many more towns and cities without ancient technology, and many of them founded or expanded after the second world fraction. Otherwise, why would Marquis Kyriva be so anxious with the return of the goblin king?

[Estavali]

Originally Posted by aohige

I wonder if Shiroe ever disclosed it with the Round Table.
If he ever did, then Eins could have leaked the info to Minami.

It's not confirmed yet at the moment, I think, as to who the spy is? Though, from what I understand, the hints, according to the fans who made the deduction, were around the place

[Cruor]

Originally Posted by Naole

You're suggesting a country can relax and outsource its national defence to Mercenaries they know almost nothing about? Again Absurd!

There is historical basis.

If you wanna go back to classical periods, you have Carthage. Who had more Mercenaries then their actual standing army (If I remember right almost all of Carthage's soldiers besides their officers and the Sacred Band were all mercenaries from Iberia, Greek, and Celtic origin). This is how Hannibal could fight with Rome without a declaration of war by the Carthaginian senate.

If you want a more modern period, the Netherlands during the Golden Age were able to fight entire wars that bankrupted Spain, Portugal, England, and France by having a seemingly endless amount of mercenaries from assorted Holy Roman Empire states paid through the Netherlands' complete control of trade in the Americas (North and South) as well as the Spice Islands and South Africa.


Edit:

Originally Posted by Torayan

Also, Akiba being 2km wide seems weird. Again, that's really small considering that around 15k adventurers live there normaly. Is that the IRL Akiba ward's real size? (or rather half of it?)

Last point, Overskill really is a new kind of exploit. Twisting the original purpose of a skill by using its new physical properties.
Isn't there an infinity of possible overskills though? Any skill or any combo could be made into an overskill, given some thought and training. I would expect to see a lot more of them in the future, and it would add a whole new dimension to the combat system.

There's the guild zones. Which is (seemingly) where most people generally live. As we saw with the newbies who got picked up by the experience exploit guild.

And yes, an Overskill is really really a loose term that can be applied to tons of different things :P.

[Naole]

Originally Posted by Rendius

What competencies am I claiming to have, exactly? I've read over my posts again, but I'm drawing a blank. You say A => B, I disagree, I say A => C, you disagree, that's fine. You disagree with A => C because I didn't graduate from your favourite engineering program? Sure, why not. You win! Everyone's very proud of you.

I've tried to be civil, but clearly there's no way to reason with you. I'd like to think that I'm backing my arguments with reasonable historical examples and relevant analogies, flawed as some may be, but in return I'm getting reductio ad absurdum and argumentum ad hominem from you.

Some of us are hypothesizing that Choshi cannot exist without the presence of adventurers, considering that the demi-human menace forced the landers to hide in their fortified cities, and drove many others to cross the seas. It's not a great leap of logic to think that there are many more towns and cities without ancient technology, and many of them founded or expanded after the second world fraction. Otherwise, why would Marquis Kyriva be so anxious with the return of the goblin king?

Of Course you're drawing a blank; you can't even follow your own arguments.

"reason" If only it was possible for reason to reach you! but your more Obstinate than Civil.

You inferred and at times claimed to have and understanding Engineering processes that aren't anywhere near your field.

"why would Marquis Kyriva be so anxious?" Did you even read the Books?

What's at stake there is more than the city itself but the surrounding supporting Infrastructure; Farms and villages. (This is the kind of thing I'm talking about; the sort of thing that leads one to question your Competence )

Clever use of Latin is poor substitute for properly reasoned arguments

[DQueenie13]

Could you guys move your conversation to PMs, it's trailing off-topic and into the territory of personal-bashing posts, regardless of who's talking.
----

How long do you guys think it'll take for Mamare to release the localized classes decisions? Last day for submission is tomorrow, after all.

[Rendius]

Originally Posted by DQueenie13

Could you guys move your conversation to PMs, it's trailing off-topic and into the territory of shit-flinging posts, regardless of who's talking.

You're right, sorry about that! It wasn't constructive and wasn't going anywhere.

Originally Posted by DQueenie13

How long do you guys think it'll take for Mamare to release the localized classes decisions? Last day for submission is tomorrow, after all.

I wonder how many submissions he received? It'd be amazing if he could sort through all of them quickly, but I'd be satisfied if he released the full submission list first, then his choices a few days later.

[Naole]

Originally Posted by Cruor

There is historical basis.

If you wanna go back to classical periods, you have Carthage. Who had more Mercenaries then their actual standing army (If I remember right almost all of Carthage's soldiers besides their officers and the Sacred Band were all mercenaries from Iberia, Greek, and Celtic origin). This is how Hannibal could fight with Rome without a declaration of war by the Carthaginian senate.

If you want a more modern period, the Netherlands during the Golden Age were able to fight entire wars that bankrupted Spain, Portugal, England, and France by having a seemingly endless amount of mercenaries from assorted Holy Roman Empire states paid through the Netherlands' complete control of trade in the Americas (North and South) as well as the Spice Islands and South Africa.


Edit:



There's the guild zones. Which is (seemingly) where most people generally live. As we saw with the newbies who got picked up by the experience exploit guild.

And yes, an Overskill is really really a loose term that can be applied to tons of different things :P.

This is the sort of thing I like; properly reasoned arguments!

I'm not a historian but wasn't the Carthaginian use of mercenaries precipitated by military defeats in the Sicilian Wars and not the norm for national Defence. I may be wrong but wasn't the use of mercenaries by the Dutch more about military supremacy than National Defence; States Army rings a bell here.

DQueenie13 noted! moving on

[Cruor]

Was the TRPG supposed to come out this year or was it N/A? I would assume if it was this year a few months but I would assume he would mention the class ideas he likes like how he did a few weeks ago.

[DQueenie13]

Originally Posted by Rendius

I wonder how many submissions he received? It'd be amazing if he could sort through all of them quickly, but I'd be satisfied if he released the full submission list first, then his choices a few days later.

I'm also wondering how he's translating all of the submissions. I know he has a grasp of English (considering that he could answer those questions in the Q&A without the need of someone else translating them), but I'm not sure about other languages. Maybe he has connections to people who can speak both Japanese and non-Japanese languages fluently?

Edit: TRPG is coming out in April, I believe. Although apparently, one of the parts was delayed. I think Rulebook is releasing first.