High School DxD Light Novel - Character power-ups, match-ups, and ratings

[Lucidrago]

Well she has changed and is learning some technique. But Issei's and Xenovia's default setting is 'hit them hard until they drop.'

[DragonOsman]

Yeah, which is why it's going to be hard for them. But at least they're trying.

[Jedsada]

for upcoming match between Rias and Vali, what do you think?

[Lucidrago]

Vali's going to win. I just feel that Ishibumi has been setting her up and hyping up her team so much that she's most likely going to lose. Having her servants in her peerage, two Longinus possessors, Vasco Strada, and the most powerful Evil Dragon who surpasses who is Heavenly Dragon-class. It just seems like Ishibumi's just setting her up to lose. For Volume 24, I believe we're going to see giants topple.

[DragonOsman]

Crom Cruach is Heavenly Dragon-level, not above it. He's stronger than Ddraig, but still at Heavenly Dragon-level. He kept training even after Ddraig and Albion were sealed. If those two hadn't been sealed and instead had been able to continue training, they'd be stronger than Crom Cruach is now. It's still Heavenly Dragon-level.

[Hakai]

About Crom and Ddraig, Ise said Crom's base spec has surpassed Ddraig's before Ddraig got sealed.

Now what does that really mean, I'm a bit confused tbh. If it's saying Crom's overall power surpassed Ddraig's then there's that, but if it's only taking about their raw power then it's a bit complicated.

Ddraig had some pretty hax abilities like penetrate and his special flames while for Crom we haven't really seen the full extent of his abilities yet.

[Bennia Lover]

Crom is depicted as a solar deity in myth so his powers will have to do with light. Why you say? Because he wouldn't be powerful if he was based on his other depiction which is a fertility god. He would be the opposite to Apophis whose power was over darkness.

[DragonOsman]

Yeah, I guess so. But until we can confirm that DxD follows that version of the myth about him to the T, we shouldn't anything for sure. We don't know if Crom Cruach in DxD also has that power. For now, it's possible that Crom Cruach is just stronger in terms of raw power.

[Lucidrago]

So I know we already broached this topic and I kind of want to talk about God's estimated power level. He's dead and we'll probably never know where he exactly stood in power level. But I feel like I can say this with certainty. That he was far above the Satans in power. I read Volume 4 a bit and found some clues hinting at God's power.

For example, the system that governed miracles and salvation. When God died, Michael and the Seraphs were forced to take over the system. Even with Michael and the other Seraphs starting up the system, it was nowhere close to how it was with God running it. So Michael had to get rid of anyone who threatened the system. A Sacred Gear that could heal devils and fallen angels was a threat to the system. Followers of the church who knew of God's death was a threat to the system. Dragon Sacred Gears were a threat to the system. Now I know it never said that. But do you think they would want a person with a Sacred Gear with a dragon sealed within in the Church? Because dragons are fearsome, mighty, and in most cases evil existences. Especially when it comes to Christianity. So we can say that only God being able to control the system is a display of his strength. But we don't know that. For example, people might say God's just a creator. Yet Brahma is a creator god and Ajuka is a creator and they're in the Top 10. So why not the only god of Christianity? Seems weird that the largest and most wide-spread religion in the world wouldn't have their only god in the Top 10. I would even say he's stronger than Shiva. There's a reason why the Longinus, which he created, are basically the most feared weapons in the world that can even kill gods.

“By the way, Ddraig, who is Ophis?”

I asked this while I was working to tie up the magicians and place them on the room’s magic circle.

[—Ophis. That’s a nostalgic name.]

So, who is he? That guy?

[He’s the strongest of the Dragon tribe.]

Stronger than Ddraig and the Vanishing Dragon?

Yeah, because he’s stronger than God as well. He’s the only existence that God couldn’t take on carelessly. He’s a true monster with power equal to infinite.]

“Seriously!? So there was still a dragon stronger than you and Albion!”

[He’s the only one. The only one who exceeds us. He’s the strongest existence in this world.]

Now I just wonder why would God be compared to Ophis? Ophis was the strongest being in the world(in the world. Great Red is floating around in the Dimensional Gap and Trihexa was sealed in the Dimensional Gap). Ddraig even said that Ophis was the only being that God couldn't take on carelessly. Now you might interpret that last line as meaning that Ddraig and Albion were the strongest beings in the world if you don't include Great Red or Ophis or Trihexa. But pay attention to the line before. Where Issei said that there was a dragon that was stronger than Ddraig and Albion. And Ddraig confirmed his thoughts saying Ophis was the only one that exceeded them. Based on the context of the last line that was meant to be that Ophis was the only 'dragon' that exceeded Ddraig and Albion. Not that Ddraig and Albion were stronger than everyone else in the Top 10 besides Ophis.

Now I know people are going to say that God was killed in the Great War. But people have to understand that he was heavily weakened from sealing Trihexa. And he had to apply a bunch of forbidden seals on the spot. Thousands of them to seal a beast as ridiculously strong as Ophis and Great Red. And that took a whole lot of power out of him. Because Shiva said that simple destruction won't be enough to defeat Trihexa. And that Trihexa wasn't that weak. Now some are going to say that Rossweisse developed a seal to seal Trihexa. But how effective would that have been and was it a long-lasting seal or just a temporary seal just meant to hold Trihexa in place and stall it for a while? Rizevim just had to use Sephiroth Graal and Incinerate Anthem, two Longinus-class Sacred Gears which God created just to unseal Trihexa. Just to say he needed two of the strongest weapons in the world that God created says something about God's power. And God was so weakened by sealing Trihexa and he had to fight in the war in that state and it was too much to handle and he died. Now even if a god is powerful, they aren't invincible. They can be weakened and killed no matter how powerful they are. There isn't a god or god-class being that is invincible. And plus God turned Samael into the Ultimate Dragon-slayer which was even powerful enough to affect Ophis, the strongest existence in the world whose power is infinite. And plus there was a reason why the leaders of the three factions kept God's death a secret is because they would clearly lose believers and the other factions and mythologies could use that as an opportunity to attack. Now maybe they wouldn't. But still there are those within every mythology that are dissatisfied with Christianity and how it took their believers and followers. So God's power was most likely keeping them at bay. So they had to keep God's death a secret because they didn't want any other factions or mythologies using that as the perfect opportunity to attack and so they wouldn't lose their believers and followers. But there was clearly an imbalance when he died. No one could properly control the system except him so not everyone could be saved. The only one who could control the Sacred Gear system was God. Now we don't know if this was intentional or not, but the Longinus and Balance Breaker were 'bugs' created because of the absence of God. So the effects of God's death were obviously there. And Valper Galilei even found out that God was dead.

So if I had to put God somewhere I would put him as the 2nd strongest being in the world behind Ophis of course, but above Shiva. Now he created some of the most powerful weapons in this series known as the Sacred Gears, created the Ultimate Dragon-slayer, sealed powerful creatures like Ddraig and Albion in Sacred Gears sealing most of their power within it even in a weakened state. Now some might say that he's just a creator god. But truly how much power does it take to create some of the most powerful weapons in the world, some that can even kill gods. Again Brahma is a god of creation and Ajuka creates things and they are in the Top 10. So I find it doubtful that someone like God who was the sole god of Christianity wasn't up there. And not to mention how large and widespread Christianity is. And the belief of their followers does have an influence on mythologies. Doesn't make the other gods from other religions less powerful. But still only one god for Christianity. And the Top 10 have at least one being from the major mythologies in the world. Thor and Fenrir from Norse mythology. Hades and Typhon from Greek. Lugh from Celtic. Aten from Egyptian. Shiva, Brahma, Vishnu, and Indra from Hindu. So why wouldn't someone from the biggest religion in the world be on there? Now Sirzechs and Ajuka are on there but they're less than a thousand years old. Like the Hindu Trimurtr, we can say God has some pretty hax abilities.

That's just my opinion on God's power level and where he stands in the Top 10.

[Hakai]

I have God below Heavenly Dragon level, Ddraig said he had and Albion had the power to dominate God and Maou.

Don't think Ishibumi would write something like that if he intended for God to be someone stronger than those two.

And so far nothing suggests he retconned/changed his mind about this.

Definitely don't see him being above Shiva. Shiva's hype is on another level compared "can be dominated by Heavenly Dragons".

[Lucidrago]

Well I could not be as strong as someone and still have the power to dominate them. Doesn't mean I could, but just had the power. They were in the Top 10 after all. You can say all of the beings in the Top 10 had the ability to dominate each other. Doesn't mean they could. But just had the power to do it.

And you think the God of the Bible isn't on another level? The reason why it said God and Satan were because those were the most powerful figures in Christianity. And you don't mention pagan gods when solely talking about Christianity. Did it ever say that Ddraig and Albion were stronger than God? Having the power to dominate someone doesn't equate to them being stronger than the other being. Like I said, I doubt the sole god of Christianity wasn't stronger than the two Heavenly Dragons. And plus some of this you're getting from a dude who loves overhyping certain beings to prove a point. When he first introduces them he'll basically make something seem far grander than it actually is. A bunch of overhype at times. Not saying they weren't powerful. But Ishibumi would say the most impressive thing just so we'd get an idea of how powerful they really were. When were some of these statements said? The beginning of the series? We can say all of the beings in the Top 10 were on par with each other. And had the power to dominate each other. Bring me a quote where it said Ddraig and Albion were stronger than God, not one where it said God feared them or they had the ability to dominate God. Having the power to kill someone doesn't make you stronger than a certain being. Just because you have a Longinus and have the ability to kill gods doesn't make you stronger than every god in existence.

[Hakai]

So the Heavenly Dragons had the power to dominate God yet he's still somehow stronger than those two?
Don't make me post the dictionary definition of the word dominate

Juggernaut Drive was also said to grant power surpassing God and Maou as well.

God's portrayal(strength wise) simply isn't as good as you are making it out to be.

[DragonOsman]

Originally Posted by Hakaishin

So the Heavenly Dragons had the power to dominate God yet he's still somehow stronger than those two?
Don't make me post the dictionary definition of the word dominate

Juggernaut Drive was also said to grant power surpassing God and Maou as well.

God's portrayal(strength wise) simply isn't as good as you are making it out to be.

QFT.

When you're talking about beings that focus mostly on raw power like Ddraig and Albion, it actually is true that if they have the power to dominate someone they really can do it. Because they're all about power. Didn't Dragonball and Bleach show us this? You can say all you want that Ishibumi doesn't want to make DxD like DBZ, @Lucidrago, but this is something universal in battle Shonens: a being that focuses on power and is all about power really can dominate someone he/she has the power to dominate.

Also, in Islam and Christianity, in real life, God is OP enough to be the most powerful in all of existence who created everything that exists and without whose permission even a single leaf can't move. And he literally can't be killed. But Ishibumi couldn't have made God in DxD that powerful. Otherwise he would've been way too hax and he couldn't even have been killed in that case. Ishibumi nerfed him when he put him in DxD. By a lot. And because he nerfed him, you can bet he wasn't as powerful as you're making him out to be. He was probably just below the Two Heavenly Dragons in power. Ddraig and Albion were also exhausted from their own fight when the Three Great Powers ganged up on them. God wasn't the only one weakened. I've said this before. Also, current Ophis is said to be twice is powerful as the Two Heavenly Dragons in their prime, and yet she's still considered the most powerful being in the world aside from Great Red and the Hindu Trimurti (because Shiva isn't interested in the current Ophis). Even Azazel was reassured when he heard that she's still more powerful than most beings in the world when he heard her say she's twice as powerful as the Two Heavenly Dragons in their prime. What do you think this means? To me, it means that even someone half as powerful as the current Ophis would be pretty high up in the Top 10.

Edit: I forgot to say this when talking about God in real life earlier. There's a verse in the Holy Qur'an that's translated like this: "He is the One in Whose control is the dominion of all Heaven and Earth, and it is He unto Whom ye shall return". He's also said to be omnipotent and omniscient. All he has to do is to say "be" and it is, or "happen" and it happens. Too OP for DxD. He was nerfed in DxD.

[Lucidrago]

I never said God was invincible. Even Ophis isn't invincible. But that was just my speculation and how I feel about his power level. And plus why was it stated that Ophis was the only one he couldn't carelessly take on? So why did the Three Factions have to keep God's death a secret? Obviously from the believers and lower-class angels. But why from the other mythologies and factions? What if someone had used God not being alive as an opportunity to attack. I would say with the number of believers, the miracles that God pulled off, and well him being the sole god of basically the largest religion in the world puts him fairly high up on the Top 10. And with all those believers would allow God to pull off some pretty hax stunts if you asked me. Not saying he's omnipotent or anything. And I am agnostic. Just saying that I doubt a god who could pull off running Christianity on his own as the center of it and create the Sacred Gears wasn't hax. Just my opinion.

@Omega Continuing from our part of our discussion in the harem thread that belonged here, what I meant by evening out was that Sona's team has gotten major power-ups in the fourth arc. Getting Loup and Bennia as servants, the girls of the Sitri team getting Artificial Sacred Gears, and Saji and Tsubaki achieving Balance Breaker. Ishibumi isn't one to leave people behind in the dirt when it comes to power-ups. That's one thing I love about Ishibumi is that he keeps everyone relevant. Even if they aren't as powerful as the Gremory group, he doesn't make them useless seeing as they have their strengths and weaknesses.

Now Rias has the daughter of a Fallen Angel leader as her queen, a rook who's a Nekoshou, a knight who was trained by one of the best swordsmen in history and you know the rest, a bishop who can stop time, and a Longinus possessor. That's basically a peerage even a Satan would be envious of. Because few are going to match the servants that Rias gathered and their immense power. I honestly believe that even Diehauser's peerage would probably be no match against the original Gremory group. So yeah the Sona team is never going to match Rias and her team in power.

That doesn't mean you can write off Sona and her team like they aren't relevant like Krillin in DBZ. Ishibumi doesn't make anyone irrelevant in DxD and that's what I respect about him. Rias and her team are very high in power output and Rias is one that can give little orders and let her team do the rest and sit back while her team goes to work cutting down the enemy easily. Rias doesn't have much need for tactics or an overall strategy with her OP peerage. But that doesn't mean her and her team don't have their weaknesses and flaws. While being OP is their strength, it's their weakness as well. They are very vulnerable to technique-types as we have seen in the Gremory vs Sitri Rating Game. Or as we saw with Akeno vs Kuisha in the Gremory vs Bael Rating Game. They aren't invincible no matter how OP they are.

Now let's talk about the Sitri team. Sona has a slightly above-average peerage in my opinion. She has two human Sacred Gear possessors, five humans(two of which had no supernatural ability in the first place), a Grim Reaper, and a werewolf who uses magic. Well now those five humans have Artificial Sacred Gears. Now they might not be as powerful as the artificial Longinus but that doesn't mean they aren't powerful. You just insult Azazel by just writing them off like that. They serve their purposes and are very useful. And then Saji got three other Vritra Sacred Gears which allowed Vritra's consciousness to awaken and he achieved Balance Breaker. And do I really need to speak of the OP phenomenon known as Balance Breaker? And Tsubaki achieved Balance Breaker as well for her Sacred Gear. And then she got a Grim Reaper in her peerage whose speed is on par with Kiba's. And she got a werewolf in her peerage who uses magic in conjunction with his hand-to-hand combat. So not as OP overall as Rias and her team, but still nothing to scoff at. Sona because of her team not being as powerful as others relies a lot on her brilliant mind to come up with excellent tactics and a winning strategy. Even if she loses, she is nothing to make fun of. She had Issei retire in her match which was an impressive feat. Now you can say all you want about Rias' team having unfair restrictions and Sona's team having an advantage. But I guess everyone highly underestimates the advantage the Gremory team had by having Issei, a Longinus possessor who achieved Balance Breaker. That far surpasses OP. And she made him retire. Even if she lost in the end, there's a reason why she got such high praise for that match. She took out Rias' strongest servant. The one who had a Longinus and who had achieved Balance Breaker with it. Both which are extreme hax. Now yes Sona is most likely going to lose against OP teams like Rias' 90% of the time but that isn't reason to look down at them. You've ever heard of superior military forces in history losing to an inferior military force? Don't go in underestimating your opponent or else you might be the one made the fool. Like with Cao Cao in Volume 11. Even of he had the True Longinus and Balance Breaker, which is an incredibly OP combination he was facing the Two Heavenly Dragons, Azazel, and the Gremory group. And then he had to protect Georg and Samael. No matter how you look at that situation, it was a death sentence for Cao Cao. And yet he made them his b*tches. Humiliated the Two Heavenly Dragons no less. Just straight-up dissed Kiba. Destroyed Durandal. You see what brilliant tactics and using your abilities to the fullest can get you right?

And what powerful opponents do you mean? The gods and god-class beings in this tournament because there less than 10% of the competitors in this tournament are gods and god-class beings so there aren't very many. The god-class beings from EX. That's a long time into the future. Which powerful opponents do you speak of? What powerful opponents have they faced so far? They did take on Bedeze Abbadon's peerage in Volume 21. Have fought against Khaos Brigade and Qlippoth. Have taken down many opponents. They haven't faced the kind of opponents Rias and her team has. They didn't fight Loki and Fenrir. They only took on 3 members of Hero Faction. They did fight against the rebel exorcists in Volume 19. What opponents of note have they really taken on? They don't draw the powerful opponents that the Gremory group does. They faced a god-class team which Rias would most likely also lose against. Has there really been a team that has beat Sona and her team that didn't defeat Rias and her team as well?

[DragonOsman]

The Ophis in her prime was invincible. You do know why she only cared about Great Red and no one else, right? It's clearly because she knew full well that no one aside from Great Red had any hope of even being her equal, let alone besting her. That's what being the embodiment of infinity means. She was literally an infinite existence. Even Trihexa would've been either just her equal or weaker than her (Ishibumi said in the Afterword for Volume 21 that a serious Great Red and Ophis in her prime are as strong as or stronger than Trihexa - but he doesn't seem to be sure which it is exactly yet).

Trihexa is considered to be a true monster. It could easily destroy the entire world. This time, it also caused massive amounts of damage to the territories of each faction, and it is also the most destructive force in DxD. If Azazel’s plan didn’t exist, then even more gods would have been defeated.

A serious Great Red and Ophis in her prime would be roughly equivalent, or perhaps even superior than this. You can understand the abnormality of Ise who has inherited the power of both those Dragon Gods.

Yes, she was weakened and can now be killed by Samael, but consider that Samael is the Ultimate Dragon Slayer. No other Dragon Slayer would've even worked on her. That's why the used the Ultimate Dragon Slayer in the first place.

And I'm not denying that God in DxD was hax. I'm just saying that with him being nerfed compared to the real life version, there were other Gods stronger than him aside from the God of Dreams and the God of Infinity (that's what they're referred to as in the chant for DxD G, and that chant was made by Ophis). Just being hax doesn't automatically mean being OP as hell. I'm sure Ddraig or Albion could've beaten him.

Okay, now look. The novels make a point of stating that a Longinus can kill God and Maou. Now I know you'll say that just because a being is said to be able to kill another being, doesn't mean they're stronger than the other person. But in contexts like these in anime, manga and LNs, when they go out of their way to say it like that, they actually do mean that the person in question is strong enough to beat the other person and kill him if he wanted to. That's also what it means for a Longinus to possess the power to kill God and Maou. No Longinus possessor has ever killed one before because they never mastered their Sacred Gear (though they may or may not have done it even if they could). You should understand what that means. No other Sekiryuutei or Hakuryuukou in history ever mastered the Boosted Gear or Divine Dividing, either. They just started the fight between the Two Heavenly Dragons whenever they met, released Juggernaut Drive and went berserk, and then died. Ddraig even said that due to them drowning in power, some of the past Sekiryuutei didn't even die while fighting the Hakuryuukou. Someone else killed them while they (the Sekiryuutei) were rampaging. They weren't able to control Juggernaut Drive at all. Vali can kind of keep his sanity for a few minutes, at least, due to his greater amount of Demonic Power. As Ddraig and Vali both said, Ise is the first Sekiryuutei to talk to Ddraig as much as he does, and also the first to be trying to master Ddraig's power instead of drowning in and losing himself in it. We can say that he and Vali will be the first to master the powers of the Two Heavenly Dragons and truly gain the power to kill God and Maou. Which also means that, if they were to try, a Heavenly Dragon-level being could defeat and kill God or Maou. It's not just because the Longinus were made by the sole God of Christianity that it says that, but because Ddraig or Albion in his prime could have done it as well if he'd wanted to. Believe it or not. But this also means that none of the past Sekiryuutei or Hakuryuukou ever gained the power to kill God or Maou. They never managed to do it, nor had any of them become capable of it. And no other Longinus possessor ever has, either. Not because a Longinus doesn't truly have that power, but actually because no Longinus possessor has ever mastered their Longinus.

Also, I know the importance of Technique. I won't deny it. I know Sona is strong and that, even if she and her peerage or tournament team aren't as powerful as Rias or her peerage or tournament team, she can still give her and other OP people and teams a good fight. But you still need some amount of power along with technique or you can't do anything. You do know that, right? Ise would have to use his brain a bit more than normal, but even he can beat a strong Technique-type if he tried. And no, the First Gen. Sun Wukong doesn't count because he's the ultimate Technique-type and is also really old with tons of experience. You can't even compare him to someone like Cao Cao. But I bet if Ise and Saji fought, Ise would win more times than not. Ddraig also said to Ise before that he also always won against Vritra whenever they fought, even though Vritra was a troublesome opponent because of his versatility. Vritra's main point isn't his power but his versatility and techniques. He was strong because of that, not because of his power. But even with that versatility, he was only a "troublesome opponent" to someone OP like Ddraig. And Ddraig would always win.

And also, I don't know if you've noticed, but it's a classic, well-known Shounen formula to make the MC the strongest or the most skilled ("most skilled" if it's a sports or cooking manga or LN). Especially in battle Shounens, the main character is almost always the strongest by the end, barring maybe a small number of other OP guys. It's not about DBZ. Almost all of them do it. DxD is also a battle Shounen.

Also, you say that God being that strong is just your opinion, but you don't actually act like it. That's just what I see.

[aw454wtr]

Author of dxd has stated in the afterwords that he does take inspiration from dragon ball and bleach

Issei's parentage does seems similar to Ichigo

Issei has inherited power from a heavenly dragon, and two dragon gods, Ichigo has inherited power from a captain class soul reaper, hollow who's power is vasto lorde class and a pure quincy who killed a vasto lorde class hollow

[Lucidrago]

I know that Issei is the strongest and I know the shounen formula well. I'm just saying unlike DBZ he doesn't make everyone besides Issei useless. In DBZ, everyone besides Goku and Vegeta is practically useless. Even if they're useful once in a while, they're still practically useless. I understand giving the MC attention but still don't just make even those that are apparently part of the main cast irrelevant. You might as well just scrap them and never show them again. I understand characters that barely show up but again they might as well rename DBS the Goku show. I know he's the MC but that's no excuse to make everyone else irrelevant whose name isn't Goku. All I see in DBS is them riding Goku's Super Saiyan d***. I don't even see a rivalry between him and Vegeta really. Keep the main cast relevant. At least when Issei gets a power-up in DxD Ishibumi doesn't just say f*** everyone else. He evens it out. And yes I know most of them will never be as powerful as Issei because Issei is one OP bada**. But still they are important and he gives some of them their fair share of attention and has them powering up at least. Yeah the MC should have the most attention and gets to defeat the big bad. But don't introduce a bunch of characters you intend to make practically useless later.

That's what I like about Ishibumi. It's that he makes no one useless. Sona and her peerage have been fighting against Khaos Brigade and Qlippoth and have been gaining valuable combat experience. Just because they aren't as strong as Rias and her team doesn't mean they are completely useless. For example, we've seen how the Gremory group's attacks were kind of touching Kokabiel, hinting at their power to come. Or how they were taking on Fenrir despite the obvious gap in power. Well it seems like the basic formula is to be at least high-class devil level to do damage. If you're at least at that level you'll be fine. They have been fighting against all of these powerful enemies and have fought constant battles and have all come back alive stronger than ever. Even if Sona and her team didn't face OP opponents like Grendel or Crom Cruach or Rizevim, they still battled against Qlippoth and came back alive. That's an impressive feat.

You just contradicted yourself. You said Ophis was invincible and then you said she was weakened. So if Ophis was invincible how was she weakened? And then you said that no one besides GR had any chance of defeating her. So how is she invincible then if she can be defeated?

And Vali and Issei do already have the power to kill gods if you haven't realized.

And it's not like the Sitri team doesn't have power. People just think they don't have power just because they aren't OP like the Gremory group. Because some don't realize that the Gremory group aren't the norm, but the exception. I would just like to say that there isn't that much of a gap(besides Issei) between the Gremory group and the Sitri group as most people think. I'm talking about overall, not in just power or technique, but overall. For example, Rudiger was ranked #7 in the Rating Games. And I don't doubt he's strong, but I think Tannin is stronger than Rudiger. And most likely Tannin's peerage surpasses Rudiger's in the power department. And yet Rudiger has more wins than losses all of the times he has faced Tannin in Rating Games. Now most people agree that Rudiger was a troublesome opponent. But the thing is while Tannin was clearly more powerful than Rudiger, there wasn't that much of a gap between their strength as there was between Ddraig's and Vritra's. You can overcome a stronger opponent if you have the right tools, equipment, tactics, and a winning strategy. And even if Rudiger never won against the likes of Diehauser doesn't mean that his tactics aren't brilliant. Diehauser has never lost to anyone in a Rating Game and has remained undefeated. But think about all of the powerful teams that Rudiger had to overcome, some of which were using king pieces and yet he got into the Top 10 and defeated stronger opponents than him. Now Sona might even surpass Rudiger. It's not that Sona's team isn't powerful, they aren't freakishly abnormally powerful like who people try to use as comparisons. And plus her and her peerage did fight against Bedeze's peerage.

Now I'm not saying that Sona and her peerage can just defeat every OP opponent that comes their way. And how hard it would be for them to actually do so. But still notice that the likes of Sona and even Seekvaira will always put their all into it and make up for their lack of power with researching her opponent and coming up with countermeasures, etc. Sona is the type of person who'll surprise you. She won't be as overly OP as very exceptional teams like Rias' but she'll keep people keeping an eye out due to her brilliant tactics and strategies. Look down on them or even underestimate them in the slightest and they will search for any opening and expose it. Like Sona did with Issei in Volume 5.

Issei's parents are just normal humans. There's no comparison. Great Red and Ophis aren't his parents.

[Hakai]

Originally Posted by Lucidrago

I know that Issei is the strongest and I know the shounen formula well. I'm just saying unlike DBZ he doesn't make everyone besides Issei useless. In DBZ, everyone besides Goku and Vegeta is practically useless. Even if they're useful once in a while, they're still practically useless. I understand giving the MC attention but still don't just make even those that are apparently part of the main cast irrelevant. You might as well just scrap them and never show them again. I understand characters that barely show up but again they might as well rename DBS the Goku show. I know he's the MC but that's no excuse to make everyone else irrelevant whose name isn't Goku. All I see in DBS is them riding Goku's Super Saiyan d***. I don't even see a rivalry between him and Vegeta really. Keep the main cast relevant. At least when Issei gets a power-up in DxD Ishibumi doesn't just say f*** everyone else. He evens it out. And yes I know most of them will never be as powerful as Issei because Issei is one OP bada**. But still they are important and he gives some of them their fair share of attention and has them powering up at least. Yeah the MC should have the most attention and gets to defeat the big bad. But don't introduce a bunch of characters you intend to make practically useless later.

No not really.
Do you even watch Dragon Ball.
The amount of spotlight Goku gets is nothing more than your average shonen MCs or even Ise himself.

Cell arc, Gohan was the main hero. Nothing more needs to be said.
Boo Arc, everyone got their chance to shine. From Gotenks to Gohan, Vegeta as well and it didn't end with Goku just soloing the final villain. He was defeated by everyone's energy.
Also It's generally accepted both Gohan and Gotenks were actually stronger than Goku in boo saga.

DBS too gave Future Trunks his own arc where he was the hero and shined more than Goku or Vegeta.
And the latest survival arc bought back many old characters and while they won't look as good as Goku(obviously) they are definitely proving to be very useful. Each of them are a lot stronger than before.

Look I don't think Dragon Ball is perfect, there's a lot of issues but if you're going to shit talk about it at least do it right.

[Lucidrago]

And what happened to Gohan, Goten, and Trunks after that? I really saw no point of Future Trunks being brought back. Buu saga was just a mess with Toriyama not being able to decide who he wanted as the MC.

I'm sorry to insult DBZ like that. It's DBS that my main problem is with. I fairly liked DBZ. But this really isn't the time or place to be discussing how much I dislike DBS. But Dragon Ball Super does make everyone besides Goku irrelevant. I have no problem with the MC getting the most attention. But just giving the MC all of the attention and not focusing on your other characters is something I hate. It's not like you got to show them defeating the big bad or give them some whole character story arc. But don't just write them off like they were never in the story in the first place. I understand that the MC will have the most attention. I don't disagree with that. But in DxD, while Issei has been getting all of these power-ups everyone else hasn't been falling behind. Issei's going to obviously be stronger since he's the MC. And yet he gives any the characters that are not even part of the main cast power-ups or even some more significant ones like Saji their chance to shine. And when Issei was fighting Apophis, Vali was fighting Azi Dahaka. Issei got his DxD form in Volume 20. And then Vali got his in Volume 21. I just don't like writing off characters like they were never important in the first place. Like I said, you don't have to give them some big character arc or any spend that much time focusing on them. But don't make them irrelevant and useless like they do in DBS.

I know the importance of MCs in series. I even get mad when the MC is missing for like 20 chapters and is nowhere to be found. And yeah Goku's spotlight is no more than any other shounen MC. But it isn't the MC. It's not focusing on the characters that aren't there. You got to remind me why they are relevant, why they're in the story in the first place, and why are they important. Just give them a little bit of attention and don't write off everyone whose name isn't Goku that's part of the cast.

[Hakai]

Spoiler for off topic:

But that's not really the case with DBS either... Whether you think Future Trunks was pointless or not(your opinion) he did get his own arc. He was the hero of that arc.

And the latest arc(still going) bought back 17,18,Krillin, Roshi and all of them are very useful and they are stronger now as well.

Vegeta, Gohan, 17 are not that much behind Goku atm. They caught up.


Anyway, not the right thread so let's leave it at that.

Just to be clear I don't mind you criticizing DB, there's a lot of problems in that series but side characters are not really entirely ignored and Goku isn't that much better than others. The only reason he's ahead is because he trains a lot more(well Vegeta as well).

Anyway, back to DxD.
Since we're discussing Sona's peerage I guess I'll state my opinion here as well.
I don't think they are weak by any means. It's just when you compare them to team Gremory they look weaker.
With people like Saji, Tsubaki, Rugal, Bennia no way they are lacking even in the strength department.
It's just Rias' peerage is even more abnormal than Sirzechs' in terms of potential(counting Ise, you'd have two future Super Devils along with Gasper).

In real combat there's no comparison but when it comes to games

“In terms of overall balance in the game, Sona’s side is already above this group. If you simply focus on fire-power, then you’ll have a hard time for your future games, Rias.”

Rias breathes out.

“I know that. I have never once looked down on Sona "

From Volume 16.

I believe Rias can still remain superior in games as well if she starts focusing more on tactics but team Sitri will always be troublesome opponents.