High School DxD [LN/M] - Volume 25 Discussion / Poll

[Norn]

Originally Posted by DragonOsman

But again, Crom is still Heavenly Dragon-class so I'd put him on par with Ddraig and Albion. And the fact that Ddraig was able to beat Typhon should also tell you that he'd still be pretty high up in the Top 10 if he still had his body.

Haven't we already concluded that he's only equal if Ddraig and Albion don't use their own unique abilities?

I agree with you about Typhon, Ddraig punked him and Apollo quite fast.

Originally Posted by AP24

That Top 10 list Typhon was part of was Vali's opinion. It was also before Balberith and Verinne were introduced, before Crom's true power was shown, and possibly didn't include Great Red and Trihexa. Vali also wouldn't know how strong Sirzechs and Ajuka really are.

I agree. The list might be completely different now that several beings rose in power/came into being.

[B214]

Originally Posted by AP24

That Top 10 list Typhon was part of was Vali's opinion. It was also before Balberith and Verinne were introduced, before Crom's true power was shown, and possibly didn't include Great Red and Trihexa. Vali also wouldn't know how strong Sirzechs and Ajuka really are.

I said before if that Top 10 list is from Vali's opinion then Great Red would be no. 1 since he's Vali's ultimate goal not Ophis. Besides, Ishibumi wouldn't say Sirzechs and Ajuka are part of that list if it's Vali's opinion.

Originally Posted by Norn

Haven't we already concluded that he's only equal if Ddraig and Albion don't use their own unique abilities?

I agree with you about Typhon, Ddraig punked him and Apollo quite fast.


I agree. The list might be completely different now that several beings rose in power/came into being.

And several got seal inside the barrier with 666.

[syzorst]

If we go by the top 10 list to those who are active in the world now. (Not counting those who are sealed)

Shiva, Ophis, Balberith, Ajuka, Indra, Crom Crauch, Vali/Issei, Hades, Verrine, Typhon/Fenrir.

This is just my guess. It's hard to tell how strong Verrine is other than we know she's weaker than Balberith but considering she's a Super Devil she would either be top 10 class or very close to it. The same can also be said about Hades since we also don't know how strong he is compared to the others.

[maton456full]

https://ishibumi.exblog.jp/amp/27368...mpression=true I think is time for a Shin thread.

[DragonOsman]

@B214: Again:

Fifth point, the questions I receive a lot from the readers.

I received many support letters and questions from the readers. So I am thinking of answering several of those asked often here. The question I received a lot is this one.

“Who would be among the top 10 strongest in the world that Vali was speaking about in volume 4?”

It was even written in the message that the fans are also debating about this. …..Seems like everyone are interested in it. I do have the setting of it just in case, so I will announce it here. Of course it is a DxD original ranking.

In no particular order Ophis, Shiva, Vishnu, Brahma, Śakra, Thor, Typhon (Or Fenrir), Hades, Aten, and Lugh.

That’s how it is. Great Red isn’t included because it is a creature who basically doesn’t fight (I get many claim that this isn’t true!), and it is the ranking before Ophis and Fenrir lost their powers. What you will have to pay attention to are the Hindu mythology which hasn’t appeared in the series yet. Well, those who know about their mythology know it, but the Hindu Gods all have cheat-like abilities. If I make them appear in DxD, it will turn out like the battle in Dragon Ball, so I controlled myself. The Hindu mythology will be placed in the higher ranks of the Top-10 strongest that Vali spoke about. It truly is terrifying. If DxD continues to go on for much longer, I’m thinking of doing “The Destruction God Shiva arc” as a last resort. So I have no plan to make them appear until then. By the way the true Sirzechs and the serious Ajuka will be placed among the ranks.

Seriously, how many times do you people have to see this before you finally get it? It clearly says that it's the Top 10 list Vali mentioned in Volume 4. The reason Sirzechs and Ajuka aren't on it could simply be because Vali didn't know back then how strong they are. And as for Ophis:

Originally Posted by Volume 12 New Life

“She was someone who was a boss of the terrorists. Even if she came to our side, it would be bad if people in the Underworld found out about it. That’s why we had many seals placed on her to have her , the power of a Dragon which is a bit strong . Well, the fact is that God-class were not subjected to be reincarnated using the evil-pieces. It seemed like it was possible for half-Gods like Valkyries though.”

She isn't even in the Top 10 anymore.

@Norn: If we go by base power (pure power only--not counting other stats, such as physical strength), Crom is stronger than Ddraig but not by so much that Ddraig can't win if they fight. And I think that the Top 10 rankings are based on power (again: pure power without counting any other stats or overall combat ability).

Crom is still Heavenly Dragon-class after all, and I think any and all beings belonging to that level or around there should be in the Top 2 spot currently. Shiva is number 1.

@Syzorst: Do we know how strong Aten and Lugh are, for example?

[XFire]

Originally Posted by AP24

@DragonOsman, I meant Top 10 of all time. If you include those who are dead or not present, Ddraig and Albion wouldn't be in the Top 10. 7 characters are pretty much confirmed to be stronger than them (Ophis (prime), Great Red, Trihexa, Shiva, Vishnu, Brahma, Crom) and possibly 5 more are too (Sirzechs, Ajuka, Indra, Balberith, Verinne).

What?

GR-Ophis-Trihexia-Shiva, sure. Maybe Balberith depending on how that works out. But Crom is superior only in physical ability and has zero answer for their hax, and he's the strongest one on that list.

Vishnu and Brahma were both part of the group attacking 666 originally, and Shiva was meant to step in if that entire group was struck down. They aren't comparable to him.

Sirzechs might be on par with DxD Issei, and he and Ajuka are superior to the others you mentioned in the second group.

They'd still be in the top ten.

[syzorst]

@DragonOsman Aren't they sealed? Atem is top 10 class

[AP24]

Originally Posted by DragonOsman

She isn't even in the Top 10 anymore.

It was mentioned in a later volume that despite weakened now, Ophis is still twice as strong as a heavenly dragon.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by AP24

It was mentioned in a later volume that despite weakened now, Ophis is still twice as strong as a heavenly dragon.

That was directly after getting Samael'd. At the end of volume 12 that's in turn reduced to "a slightly strong dragon".

[DragonOsman]

@AP24: That was before New Life. Her powers were mentioned to be sealed in New Life. So she was 2x Heavenly Dragon-class and also already finite after Samael took her power, and then there were many seals placed on her power. So she's just a "slightly strong dragon" and doesn't belong in the Top 10 anymore post-Volume 12 New Life.

@Syzorst: I meant compared to the Two Heavenly Dragons in their primes (if they had their bodies right now) and Crom. I know they'd be in the Top 10 if they weren't sealed.

And, again: since Ddraig when he came out of the Boosted Gear for apparently just seven minutes during the Team Sekiryuutei of the Blazing Truth vs. Team Jest of the Kings match defeated Typhon pretty easily, I'd say he'd definitely belong in the Top 10 if he still had his body.

Edit: One post late.

[B214]

Originally Posted by DragonOsman

@B214: Again:


Seriously, how many times do you people have to see this before you finally get it? It clearly says that it's the Top 10 list Vali mentioned in Volume 4. The reason Sirzechs and Ajuka aren't on it could simply be because Vali didn't know back then how strong they are. And as for Ophis:


She isn't even in the Top 10 anymore.

@Norn: If we go by base power (pure power only--not counting other stats, such as physical strength), Crom is stronger than Ddraig but not by so much that Ddraig can't win if they fight. And I think that the Top 10 rankings are based on power (again: pure power without counting any other stats or overall combat ability).

Crom is still Heavenly Dragon-class after all, and I think any and all beings belonging to that level or around there should be in the Top 2 spot currently. Shiva is number 1.

@Syzorst: Do we know how strong Aten and Lugh are, for example?

It said

“Who would be among the top 10 strongest in the world that Vali was speaking about in volume 4?”

Was it saying it was Vali's personal list? Also like i said, Vali's ultimate goal is Great Red it doesn't matter if Great Red fight or not. Vali wants to fight it.

“The one I want to fight the most. The Apocalypse Dragon Great-Red who is called [DxD], Dragon of Dragon. –I want to become “The True God-Emperor of White-Dragon”. It won’t look good if the ‘white’ is a rank below the ‘Red’ when there is the ultimate-class for ‘Red’ right? That’s why I will become one. One day when I defeat Great-Red.”

Even in V4, when talking about the Top 10 Vali only said this.

“There are a lot of strong people in this world. Even the Crimson Satan, Sirzechs Lucifer won’t fit in the top ten.”

There are so many people stronger than Sirzechs-sama? Honestly the me right now can’t imagine it. Vanishing Dragon raises one finger.

“However, the first place is decided. ----It’s a fixed existence.”

“? Who is this about. Are you saying you're the first?”

He shrugs his shoulders to my question.

“You’ll know it anyhow. However, it’s not me. ----Hyoudou Issei, you’re a valuable existence. It’s better if he’s raised well, Rias Gremory.”

Besides if it was Vali's list who hasn't even seen Sirzechs' true form and mention Sirzechs isn't in top 10, do you think this statement from the Afterword makes sense to say it was based on Vali's list

By the way the true Sirzechs and the serious Ajuka will be placed among the ranks.

[AP24]

Maybe it's easier if I put it this way

Top 10 of all time
1-3) Ophis, Trihexa, Great Red
4) Shiva
5-8) Vishnu, Brahma, Balberith, Verinne
9-10) Sirzechs/Ajuka/Indra/Crom/Lilith

Current Top 10
1) Shiva
2-3) Balberith, Verinne
4-6) Indra, Crom, Lilith
7-8) Issei, Vali
9-10) Typhon, Hades

[godz]

Originally Posted by AP24

Maybe it's easier if I put it this way

Top 10 of all time
1-3) Ophis, Trihexa, Great Red
4) Shiva
5-8) Vishnu, Brahma, Balberith, Verinne
9-10) Sirzechs/Ajuka/Indra/Crom/Lilith

Current Top 10
1) Shiva
2-3) Balberith, Verinne
4-6) Indra, Crom, Lilith
7-8) Issei, Vali
9-10) Typhon, Hades

Do you know the true abilities of hades or indra to give that position? hades you can be more than we know (without counting that it is the final antagonist of this new era)

[Norn]

Originally Posted by DragonOsman

@Norn: If we go by base power (pure power only--not counting other stats, such as physical strength), Crom is stronger than Ddraig but not by so much that Ddraig can't win if they fight. And I think that the Top 10 rankings are based on power (again: pure power without counting any other stats or overall combat ability).

Crom is still Heavenly Dragon-class after all, and I think any and all beings belonging to that level or around there should be in the Top 2 spot currently. Shiva is number 1.

A hypothetical. Also, you will need to define pure power in way that doesn't just favor power types.

[DragonOsman]

It's not fitting for just Power-types, though. Sirzechs has power on par with the Two Heavenly Dragons if my speculation is correct, but he fights like a Technique-type.

@AP24: Ise and Vali are on par since both their DxD forms are Heavenly Dragon-class. I really wouldn't put one below the other. Also, again, prime Ophis was said to be exactly equal to Great Red, just like Ddraig and Albion were said to be equal. Not just in the same class, but equal. Trihexa is in the same class as them, but is weaker than them. And I also think unless he has a strong enough hax, Indra is probably below the Heavenly Dragon-class beings.

In the Top 10 list of all-time, Prime Ophis, Great Red and Trihexa should be in the same rank since they're on par with one another. The Two Heavenly Dragons if they still had their bodies would be so powerful, with both their base stats and their special abilities, that I'd say the only beings they couldn't defeat would be the Dragon God-class beings. And I wouldn't put Shiva in that rank. He's above all other Gods, but below Dragon God-class beings. And I think since Ddraig and Albion's finishing moves are said to work on anyone other than themselves, prime Ophis and Great Red, I'd say they could beat Shiva too if they really tried. The Two Heavenly Dragons are OP. Don't take them lightly.

And it's good that you didn't put Ophis in your current Top 10 list, but let me say this just in case: Ophis' power was stolen by Samael in Volume 11, and she had her powers sealed in Volume 12. And the quote I brought about Ophis' current power being that of a "Dragon God that's just a bit strong" is from when Azazel was talking to Ise and the others in the ORC clubroom. There's no reason for Azazel to lie them or tell them a cover story. So what he told them is how it actually is.

[AP24]

@DragonOsman, being in the same row means they're equal in my list.

All the dragon gods and heavenly dragons are sealed or weakened, so Shiva is currently the strongest.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by AP24

Maybe it's easier if I put it this way

Top 10 of all time
1-3) Ophis, Trihexa, Great Red
4) Shiva
5-8) Vishnu, Brahma, Balberith, Verinne
9-10) Sirzechs/Ajuka/Indra/Crom/Lilith

Current Top 10
1) Shiva
2-3) Balberith, Verinne
4-6) Indra, Crom, Lilith
7-8) Issei, Vali
9-10) Typhon, Hades

Vishnu, Brahma, and Verrine aren't that high, and Ddraig and Albion are stronger than the group you have at "9-10".

And lol at Indra even being in that tier at all.

[DragonOsman]

@AP24: Same row or no, being one or more rank(s) lower makes the person much weaker than just "on par". I think my list is likelier with all Heavenly Dragon-class beings in the #2 spot with Shiva being #1 while Ophis is weakened, Great Red doesn't fight, and Vishnu and Brahma are fighting Trihexa inside the barrier.

@XFire: I know Shiva is a last resort, but isn't it possible that Ajuka just wanted to use him as a last resort because he's got a greater hax among the Trimurti even if they're equal in overall fighting ability or in terms of pure power? It doesn't necessarily have to mean they're weaker than Shiva. The Trimurti are supposed to be equal, aren't they?

By the way, guys, how likely do you think a Destruction God Shiva Arc is as the 6th arc? If Ishibumi decides to extend Shin past the 5th arc instead of ending it with the 5th arc, we could see that Shiva arc as the 6th one with the Shiva vs. Indra war being in it. It could happen especially if Indra doesn't manage to win the tournament, where he could decide to drop the pretenses and just attack Shiva normally. Although it's also possible that he won't have the war if he doesn't win the tournament.

But in that case, if Ishibumi decides to make a 6th arc, it could be focused on something other than the Shiva-Indra if someone other than Indra wins the tournament, but could still be a Shiva arc (just not focusing on his war with Indra).

[Lucidrago]

Hasn't this been stated to be the last arc? And you do have to consider when Ishibumi mentioned that, he had no idea what the fifth arc was going to be about. As Shiva and Sakra have already been introduced and have their eyes on this tournament, it seems like they're acting more as bait just so they can experience something interesting. Even if it's Hades plunging the world into chaos.

Ishibumi is going into the theme of how there are gods that feel pain because of this peace. And as Indra said, gods are very honest with their grudges.

[XFire]

@DragonOsman no, the pillar gods have never been stated to be equal. In the myth, perhaps, but in myth Zeus would have folded Hades over his knee and Fenrir was the weakest of Loki's children.