High School DxD Light Novel - DX.4 (Volume 23.5)

[DragonOsman]

Sirzechs doesn't have one because he wanted to be faithful to Grayfia and also because it would've created complications politically if he'd created a harem. It's not like a Maou can't have one, though. Ise would be fine if he created one even if he become a Maou since he has stronger political backing with who most of the girl in his harem are and who they each have ties/links/relations with.

[Brawlre]

I’m pretty sure that rias mom had said something along the lines of he can’t have a harem because he’s a maou she said this in like volume 10 around the time she was push rias to be more aggressive

[Lucidrago]

Then why would Venelana imply that someone who is a Maou/Satan can't have a harem? Where did it say Sirzechs wanted to be faithful to Grayfia? The Underworld society is far different from our own. So what's your definition of 'faithful' in a world where having a harem is fine? Because I'm pretty sure Lord Gremory is faithful to Venelana yet he has a harem. And I'm sure that Issei is faithful to Rias but yet he has(going to have) a harem. Are you implying that if someone like Sirzechs had a harem then he wouldn't be faithful to Grayfia? Again are you using the standards of our modern society to determine what being 'faithful' means in a world where harems are perfectly fine unless you're a Maou/Satan?

[cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by Lucidrago

Then why would Venelana imply that someone who is a Maou/Satan can't have a harem? Where did it say Sirzechs wanted to be faithful to Grayfia? The Underworld society is far different from our own. So what's your definition of 'faithful' in a world where having a harem is fine? Because I'm pretty sure Lord Gremory is faithful to Venelana yet he has a harem. And I'm sure that Issei is faithful to Rias but yet he has(going to have) a harem. Are you implying that if someone like Sirzechs had a harem then he wouldn't be faithful to Grayfia? Again are you using the standards of our modern society to determine what being 'faithful' means in a world where harems are perfectly fine unless you're a Maou/Satan?

I'd say with Sirzechs it is more because his romance with Grayfia is such a storied tale in the underworld that it puts pressure on him not to have one.

[Lucidrago]

And you think Issei's romance with Rias isn't going to be a storied tale in the Underworld in the future(it probably is now). His romance with Rias is a very big thing in the Underworld. Does that mean Issei won't have a harem?

High School DxD, Volume 10, Life 1

“If the man is wishing for that, then it’s your role as the heir to manage it. If it’s going to increase even more, you will have to do it properly from now on. It was I, who took control of it in the case with your father. It’s a usual thing in the World for a woman to be attracted by men who are both charming and strong. Sirzechs only has Grayfia because he is a Maou, but “he” isn’t aiming to become Maou correct? Then there isn’t any problem……Or you still haven't made a decision on it yet? Oh my. I thought you inherited the pushy attitude from me, but for you to become weak at the last and crucial moment….. Once you form a relationship, you can also gain the authority of other women around him. Rias, can you not even make progress in your relationship with him without Grayfia and I getting involved? ”

So where does that say anything about Sirzechs not having a harem because of any of the stuff you guys listed? Venelana was talking about Issei's harem. And then she mentioned the reason why Sirzechs doesn't have a harem is because he's a Maou/Satan. And then she implied that Issei could have a harem as long as he didn't become a Maou/Satan.

I attribute it to this reason. The Satans are leaders of the Underworld. They have a power balance between them and the old devils and the Baels. So what happens if they're able to have a harem? Political marriages would most likely be set up with noble houses trying to gain a closer connection to the Maou/Satans by marrying off their daughters to someone like Sirzechs. And Sirzechs has more political backing from those houses and it would throw the power balance off and make the Satans too powerful. And the old devils wouldn't want that. They would basically be gaining influence and getting connections with all of these noble houses through political marriages and gain influence. So that's what most devils were afraid of and they imposed that rule upon the Satans. Something like that. I'm sure someone could explain this much easier than I could.

[DragonOsman]

Then why did Sirzechs tell Ise to become a Maou? Why does Grayfia want to guide him to become a Maou (remember: it's the main reason why she's on his tournament team)? You're aware that they both know he wants to have a harem and aren't against it, right? The reason Sirzechs doesn't have a harem isn't because there's a rule imposed on the Maou, but more because of the same trouble with politics and noble houses that you mentioned. It's more of an unspoken rule. Sirzechs suggested for Ise to become a Maou despite knowing about his dream to become a Harem King because he knows Ise's situation would be different since he already has enough political backing to not be influenced too much by the pressure from the Old Devils and other political games and stuff.

[Lucidrago]

Well I'm sure they would make an exception for Issei. It's not like he's one who would abuse his position or try to leverage power or use political marriage to gain more power and influence as Maou/Satan. I'm just sure they were afraid of any future Maou/Satan gaining more power and influence through political marriage and they didn't want that. Issei only has Rias and Ravel who are pureblood high-class devils from noble families. The rest aren't. Now we can say that his other future wives gives him the support of other factions, but this is Underworld politics we're talking about. Most likely they didn't want any of their leaders(the Satans) trying to gain more power through tons of political marriages with other noble households. Now we can say that Kunou is going to be the leader of the Kyoto Youkai in the future and Akeno's going to be a fallen angel leader. But that will increase Issei's standing in the supernatural world and through him it will increase the Underworld's standing in the supernatural world so that's entirely fine and will foster an even better relation with the Fallen Angels and Kyoto Youkai in the future. But this is Underworld politics we're talking about. Like I said, some Satans might just try to gain more power through political marriage, become tyrannical, and gain too much power in the Underworld which would break the power balance between the Maou and the Bael Faction and the old devils. At least that's what I believe.

[DragonOsman]

But still, that just means that the reason the Maou don't have harems is just because of that worry of the Underworld's people. It doesn't mean there's a rule that says that a Maou can't have a harem. If there was, Sirzechs wouldn't tell Ise to become a Maou since it would be breaking one of the Underworld's rules. That's what I'm saying. There's really no such rule, it's only because of the worry that a Maou would gain too much power by marrying people from noble houses of the Underworld.

[Lucidrago]

Or maybe because of Issei possibly being such a huge figure in the Underworld they'll allow him an exception. They have to put some kind of limit or restriction on a Maou/Satan.

[B214]

Or maybe it's because Sirzechs already planned for the Seven Great Maous which would give Maous more freedom and control.

[DragonOsman]

B214, you should remember how Noman said before that that the thing about there being a rule like this in the Underworld was a misconception among DxD fans.

[Lucidrago]

@B214 Why do you think Sirzechs is the only one proposing things in the Underworld? There were three other Satans/Maou you know. You think Ajuka, Serafall, or Falbium don't propose anything?

Maybe it was a rule. Maybe it wasn't. Maybe people just think it's a rule. And maybe it's a rule because they don't want power-hungry Satans in the future gaining too much influence and power by a bunch of political marriages. That's one of Ishibumi's flaws. He just says one statement and leaves it alone and just leaves it to us to fill in the blanks.

[Brawlre]

It’s not really a flaw your fans need to stop wanting the author to walk you through the story if you can’t come to a conclusion with this then just leave it somethings aren’t meant to make sense right now if they were then their would be no need to for future volumes and development in characters/plots

[Lucidrago]

I'm just saying that Ishibumi writes one statement and doesn't clarify on it. I'm not saying Ishibumi isn't a great author but I just think there are things meant to be clarified further.

[Brawlre]

Did you not get what I said or maybe I wasn’t being clear enough
For example we all thought koruka was a bad character in volume 5 6 volumes later we know she is a good sister the story isn’t even finished and you want to a explanation on certain things if the story ends without explaining anything then make that statement but the story isn’t over so that statement isn’t accurate in anyway the point of somethings not being explained is to help with the plot

[Example] vali said sirzechs wasn’t in the top 10 8 volumes later we are shown otherwise you know why he didn’t tell us sooner because him being in the top 10 tied into his confrontation with hades it made since at a time like that instead of letting us know this when we didn’t even know about any characters that strong in volume 4 when we were still only scratching into the plot of the series and the many characters the series had to offer.

[Lucidrago]

That was a different case. Revealing certain info much later is far different from excluding certain info and not explaining it all the way like Maou/Satans not having harems. And we discussed this but how would Vali even know how powerful Sirzechs truly was? Has he met Sirzechs before the events of Volume 4? Has he fought with Sirzechs? No one truly knew how powerful Sirzechs was. They knew he was a Super Devil but they never guessed he was powerful enough to be in the Top 10. Not even Azazel or Hades knew how truly powerful Sirzechs was.

I'm talking about info that wasn't properly clarified not info that was meant to be revealed later or a character's misconception. For example, Ishibumi overhyping sometimes and writing in how powerful this character is and those kinds of things. The fake Phenex Tears thing just to make Ravel relevant to her volume. Those kinds of things.

[Brawlre]

1.Obviously it was a different case but it had the same scenario [ when it comes to information]

2.no they are some what the same more like they go hand and hand if it’s not brought to our attention it’s considered excluded / Uninformed

Excluded
keep (something) out of a place.

remove from consideration; rule out.

Unexplained
not having or showing awareness or understanding of the facts

It’s not a good story if you know what happens next also there’s no need for him to explain the whole maou thing reason being issei is only High Class he isn’t even ultimate class yet (And I’m not talking about in power)

Look these things up before saying them

Also I’m aware no one knew how strong he was but most people were probably influenced by vali’s Statement

Also just cause something is excluded doesn’t mean it can’t be included later on

Just how people didn’t know who naruto’s parents were that info was EXCLUDED from us just for it to be INFORMED / INCLUDED into our knowledge years later

If people don’t explain something we excluded it therefore vali didn’t explain what he said so just we didn’t look any deeper and at that time nothing contradicted what he said so we excluded sirzechs out of the top 10 because we weren’t informed of his strength consciously or subconsciously

[Lucidrago]

But there are things Ishibumi obviously doesn't clarify that leaves us in confusion that we know he isn't going to include later. That's far different from excluding something that is going to be revealed later or a character not knowing about something like people not knowing that Sirzechs was in the Top 10 or people saying that Kuroka got drunk on power and killed her master for no reason.

There's a difference between the two. There's lack of clarification for some things that should be explained that Ishibumi didn't think out properly like the fake Phenex Tears just to make Ravel relevant. And then there's a character thinking something that is based off of their guess and then it is revealed much later that what they thought isn't true. Like the real reason why Kuroka killed her master or Azazel finding out how strong Sirzechs truly was in Volume 12.

[cyberdemon]

The quote didn't say Maou's can't have harems. Just that Sirzechs can't because of his role as a Maou. It could just be as simple as he is too busy to get one. Being a Maou can take up a lot of time. There is also a need for support to remain a Maou. So using his storied romance with Grayfia is a tactic that can be used. People are simply fickle when it comes to political support so even small things like that help.

Issei is different. He's had a harem long before any potential Maou talk. People associate it with him as much as his story with Rias. So he doesn't have the same kind of unofficial restrictions that Sirzechs has.

[Brawlre]

**Sigh**
1.You do realize the concept of ise becoming a maou is fairly new it was introduced in what like the 19 volume and were on the 23rd volume

2. Ise hasn’t been showing any real interest in becoming a maou tbh he’s shown more interest in becoming a good king

Why does this matter you ask?

Because if it’s not that relevant to the protagonist then it shouldn’t matter because the story mainly focuses on ise and his goals and his goal was never to be a maou but instead a harem king if it doesn’t revolve around the main protagonist or his goals is shouldn’t matter that much because it won’t do anything for him or the story

Also you do not know if the conditions for becoming a maou will be touched on or not so don’t go saying if something won’t be touched on or not

What you should be hoping is that ise becomes a maou because if he does then it will be explained
If he doesn’t then there is no need for it to be explained

It’s like working for a construction company and wanting them to teach you how to make soup

Also I said they weren’t that different and at the very least they go hand and hand

Also the fake phenex tears were explained

Also excluded something something like plot points is pretty much the same for us viewers you know why cause we’re not informed there for we’re excluded from certain points in the strory [ Until informed ]

Like seriously we waited 6 volumes after koruka was introduced until we finally figured out that she wasn’t as bad as we thought she was and to figure out there was a decent reason behind her murdering her master

Theirs usually 2 major reasons why certain things aren’t clarified

A.it doesn’t play a huge role in the entirety of the of the story so focusing would be a waste of time

B.it ruins future plot

Also sirzechs true power being know wouldn’t have done anything for volume 4 why on the other hand there was a reason for his power being presented to us in volume 12

So you needing to know how the classifications for maou is pointless until ise becomes a maou or goal is to become one until then it wouldn’t matter or do anything for the plot

Also I’m not knocking you or anyone for wanting to know how it works but don’t go saying things like he is bad at explaining when something’s don’t really matter that much in hindsight