F/SN UBW TV - Episode 23 Spoiler Discussion / Poll

[JustThisOne]

Originally Posted by GreyZone

And now WHAT does Shirou get from Archer? Exactly: "Combat Experience", because "skills" + "memories" = "Combat Experience".

The only thing Shirou "learned" from Archer was how to use UBW. The Eye of Mind is something Archer gained from fighting so damn long, which is independent from his magecraft.

[GreyZone]

Originally Posted by JustThisOne

The only thing Shirou "learned" from Archer was how to use UBW. The Eye of Mind is something Archer gained from fighting so damn long, which is independent from his magecraft.

Nope, he gains skills too. Archer even mentions how Shirou "becomes stronger" the more they fight. EP20 of this anime even shows Shirou outright using (a downgraded version of) the "sword technique" that Archer used only few moments earlier

[JustThisOne]

Originally Posted by GreyZone

Nope, he gains skills too. Archer even mentions how Shirou "becomes stronger" the more they fight. EP20 of this anime even shows Shirou outright using (a downgraded version of) the "sword technique" that Archer used only few moments earlier

Nothing you posted suggests that Shirou gained Eye of Mind. Shirou throughout the battle Shirou was just getting the "sword techniques" from Archer. Eye of Mind is a skill that lets you employ strategy in the middle of combat. Shirou during the fight employed no strategy and towards the end of fight even abandoned sword skills.

[Rising Dragon]

From what I understand, Shirou's Tracing of weapons used by Heroic Spirits and such emulate them to such a perfect detail that he's effectively taking on the strength and abilities of those Heroic Spirits that wielded them, if only for a few moments at a time. Those abilities allow him to match Heroic Spirits in battle, but it's pretty much momentarily. That's why he was able to pull off similar feats against Archer in their battle once he had accumulated enough experience from Archer, and why he was able to wield Berserker's axe-sword in Heaven's Feel.

[Geburah]

In any case this is more akin practicing for years on the firing range and being quite skillfull with your gun. But that training doesnt give you real combat experience.

When Archer says Shirou is becoming strongers is more likely refering to his projection skills improving from brittle imitations, to something passable in matter of minutes with each sword clash

[ShadowSamurai365]

I don't know. The only thing I know is that when it comes to UBWShirou, he had to do the combination of both learning about his abilities by himself (along with training); along with absorbing skills from Archer.

In the UBW route he had a lot of people to either tell him about the basics or about a certain magic (Rin), or had someone give him (directly or indirectly) details/information either about his abilities or things related to it(Archer). When it comes to practicing, we see Shirou trying to copy (probably by himself unless the Archer's attack actually helped him) Archer's technique in a spar against Saber; along with the anime original content (when Archer first used UBW) where Shirou was thinking about how to improve his ability basing on the theory he had when he was dealing with Archer's sword rain.

[quigonkenny]

Originally Posted by GreyZone

And now WHAT does Shirou get from Archer? Exactly: "Combat Experience", because "skills" + "memories" = "Combat Experience".

Which is exactly why he doesn't gain (or at least keep) Eye of the Mind (True), because those memories are eventually lost, or at least badly degraded, as "The World" erodes them in order to resolve as much of the paradox as possible. He loses the skills as well, if I'm hearing right.

None of that precludes him eventually making new memories, and re-honing those skills, to eventually reach, and presumably pass, the level he achieved due to Archer's presence.

[Polarpew]

the only way the final episode fight can be done correctly is if Gilgamesh's Gate of Babylon is opened fully and duking it out with Shirou's projections while the two are sword fighting. I wanna see hundreds of NP's flying at each other the entire fight and not a piss poor half a dozen like the ones we've been seeing. Hundreds! Thousands! need proof that Gil's GoB really contains ALL treasure and not just a couple

[monster]

Originally Posted by Polarpew

the only way the final episode fight can be done correctly is if Gilgamesh's Gate of Babylon is opened fully and duking it out with Shirou's projections while the two are sword fighting. I wanna see hundreds of NP's flying at each other the entire fight and not a piss poor half a dozen like the ones we've been seeing. Hundreds! Thousands! need proof that Gil's GoB really contains ALL treasure and not just a couple

Why would Gilgamesh need to prove himself to a faker?

[bhl88]

The only time Gilgamesh proves himself to a faker is if he dragged out Ea.

[monster]

Originally Posted by bhl88

The only time Gilgamesh proves himself to a faker is if he dragged out Ea.

In what way?

[Guido]

Rin and Shiro reached an impasse with their plans to dismantle the Holy Grail, since Assassin still anchored to the physical world and blocking Saber's path was a detail so sudden and unaccounted for.

This is just another example like in real life that plans won't always work as predicted or calculated, or that not everything will go according to them; things that cannot be predicted or expected are bound to happen carrying failure.

So, what we can do in those situations, either resign or working our way to find solutions.


Honestly, the last three closing minutes to this episode were somewhat sluggish flowing in a slow pace, though I felt it was an onscreen manifestation for Rin and Shiro reaching their limits with seemingly no way out to stop the Grail.


As for Gilgamesh, I don't think he plans to reenact way things were at his era as King, if the Grail succeeds at wiping out most of humanity. I'll believe he will just comfortably sit on his throne marveling and laughing at the survivors struggling through the aftermath of the calamity just to quench his boredom. But, perhaps, his amusement would be rooted more at witnessing the survivors destroying each other as a result of their greed released through despair.

Lastly, Assassin bathed under the moonlight was a subtle, and yet beautiful metaphor to describe the servant. Something that cannot be grasped, because it is an illusion that doesn't exist.
Perhaps, Assasin could never think of any wishes due not being able to grasp them as a fictional entity. However, if Assassin dissappeared with a smile of satisfaction on his face, then that may be due to filling himself with his duel against Saber.

[Dengar]

Just to clarify though, the man himself is in fact a real person. He just is not Sasaki Kojirou, because that man does not exist. He is also not a legendary soul, but rather a random spirit who resembles Sasaki Kojirou in some ways.