KanColle - Historical references and History discussion

[FunnyGuy]

Originally Posted by Kakurin-san

The American torpedo bomber performance at Midway was abysmal, most of them were massacred by Zeroes. The carriers were only hit by dive bombers. Dive bomber by themselves can't sink a ship as big as a carrier. They burned out and were inoperable. But they didn't sink until the Japanese scuttled them with their own torpedoes.

I see, so it has to be"Poi" and the others to sink Akagi, Kaga, Soryu and Hiryu for the sake of "shortening" their suffering? That would be heart breaking.

[Ithekro]

The dive bombers from Enterprise and Yorktown did the damage that crippled the carriers and set them on fire. Hornet's dive bombers kept missing the area or targets. The Japanese managed to evade and shoot down most of the American torpedo bombers before the dive bombers attacked.

However they would not sink with that damage. They were unusable, or at least it would be nearly impossible to get them back to a Japanese base with the Americans still around. They need help to sink. The destroyers escorting them sank the four Japanese carriers.

(Enterprise's planes wrecked Kaga as two squadrons hit her. Akagi was hit by three planes and only one bomb...but that one bomb was enough. Yorktown's planes took out Soryu. Hornet's dive bombers never found the Japanese on that trip. Later a combined force of planes from Yorktown and Enterprise (launching from Enterprise) wrecked Hiryu. Hornet's planes attacked the escorts but missed.)


In anime context? They wouldn't be able to escape under tow with so many Abyssal ships around, and if left they might be converted into Abyssal ships or bases. So to prevent that, Yuudachi, Tone, Chikuma, and Kitakami would need to do the honors until Fubuki arrives. Fubuki might be tasked to finish the job if the others are out of torpedoes. Hiei gets out of it due to not having torpedoes.

[basinz123]

and this is the battle That Yorktown sank right? Sorry if I'm wrong bcoz I only watch battle360 for reference XD

[FunnyGuy]

Originally Posted by basinz123

and this is the battle That Yorktown sank right? Sorry if I'm wrong bcoz I only watch battle360 for reference XD

Yeah. It is

[basinz123]

Originally Posted by FunnyGuy

Yeah. It is

tnx for clarifying that man. I really mess up my history bcoz of limited resources and I will just w8 for the appearance of the USN on kancolle XD

[Ithekro]

Yorktown was damaged by the Japanese planes twice, but still tried to make it home under tow. She was torpedoed again by submarine I-168 a few days later along with destroyer USS Hammann. Hammann sank quickly, but Yorktown stayed afloat a while longer. She eventually sank from all her damages.

[basinz123]

dammit can't upload my ship girl...... can someone give me link to instructions on how to upload pics tnx

[basinz123]

Originally Posted by basinz123

dammit can't upload my ship girl...... can someone give me link to instructions on how to upload pics tnx

sorry for double post but I will post my en-chan!

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Kakurin-san

The American torpedo bomber performance at Midway was abysmal, most of them were massacred by Zeroes. The carriers were only hit by dive bombers. Dive bomber by themselves can't sink a ship as big as a carrier. They burned out and were inoperable. But they didn't sink until the Japanese scuttled them with their own torpedoes.

Hermes and Franklin would like a word....

True, most carriers sunk to torpedoes but a well placed bomb hit is enough to burn out a ship especially if it hits munitions. More would be a sinking as Hermes shows

[Ithekro]

Franklin made it home.

[Kakurin]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

True, most carriers sunk to torpedoes but a well placed bomb hit is enough to burn out a ship especially if it hits munitions. More would be a sinking as Hermes shows

Hermes was tiny compared to a Japanese fleet carrier like Akagi and Kaga. The latter was ravaged by American bombs with entire parts of the ships' upperworks getting blasted away from ordnance explosions. But she didn't sink.

[Ithekro]

HMS Hermes, was basically the British Houshou. The first carrier every designed as one. She was old and not designed for what she got in the end. She'd been the training carrier before the war forced her back into service.

USS Franklin and USS Bunker Hill survived being attacked and made it home. Both were never to see active service again, but both lasted at least two decades after the war. Franklin was sold for scrap in 1966 while Bunker Hill wasn't sold until 1973 (after an effort to keep her as a museam ship).

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Franklin made it home.

But with one of the highest casualty counts of US ships in the war and the inside virtually gutted by fire.

She would have sunk if she weren't in the heart of a fleet with adequate support; the boilers were in danger of explosion and she was gradually listing. She would eventually sink in such circumstances if she were abandoned even without a torpedo coup de grace


And this was caused by a single Suisei or Ryusei hitting with a 250 Kg bomb and another smaller bomb



It really depends on where it hits.....Destroying the flight deck does nothing if the interior of the ship isn't gutted and holed or flooded from fire-fighting efforts.


Ultimately, it's just that it's easier to confirm a kill by torpedoes due to flooding below waterline and higher chance of destroying critical components due to location of the blast, but yes...it's very possible to sink carriers by bombs alone

[Kakurin]

The Japanese got Franklin in the best condition possible - with dozens of planes fueled and armed. That's a very lucky situation that doesn't happen often. Meanwhile the number of carriers that were not in danger of actually sinking after getting hit by bombs only is far longer. All four Japanese Midway carriers had to be scuttled. Yorktown took a couple of bomb hits at Coral Sea but was ready for Midway a month later. At the same battle Shōkaku took a number of hits, but made it all the way back to Japan. During the Battle of the Eastern Solomons Enterprise was hit a few times, but was back in action two months later to engage at Santa Cruz. There she, like Shōkaku, again took a number of bomb hits without ever being in danger of sinking.

[Ithekro]

Yet, Franklin made it home.

It is possible, had the Japanese managed to secure the area, that they could have gotten Akagi and even some of the others home as well. But the general knowledge would put the Americans as more likely to save a ship with their damage control teams than the Japanese would.

USS Franklin (CV-13) could be considered the unlucky ship just because she was numbered 13, yet she made it home. To the Japanese, the numerically unlucky one of the American carriers would have been CV-4, USS Ranger, but Ranger never ventured into the war in the Pacific. Or CV-40 USS Tarawa, which never saw combat (to my knowledge), nor was ever really modernized. She was finished too late to see action in World War II and when reactivated for the Korean War was set to the Atlantic Fleet to fill in for the carriers that had been assigned there that had been rushed to Korea. She then was deactivated in 1960 and scrapped in 1968.

[Marina2]

Is there any record about what equipments/weapons Russian gave to Hibiki/Vernir?

[Ithekro]

According to Wikipedia:

On April 5, 1947, Hibiki was turned over to the Soviet Union at Nahodka as a prize of war, and placed in service with the Soviet Navy under the name Verniy (Russian: Верный "Faithful", after being rearmed with Soviet-made weapons (six 130 mm guns, seven 25 mm guns, four to six 12.7 mm machine guns, and six 533 mm torpedo tubes). She was placed in service with the Soviet Pacific Fleet based at Vladivostok on July 7, 1947. She was renamed again on July 5, 1948 as Dekabrist (Russian: Декабрист "Decembrist"). She was retired from service on February 20, 1953 and subsequently scrapped.

Though other listing have her sunk as target ship.

[Marina2]

Thank for the answer.

Developers should give those equipments to her kai2

it shouldn't be that hard to make up the in-game status for those equipments.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Kakurin-san

The Japanese got Franklin in the best condition possible - with dozens of planes fueled and armed. That's a very lucky situation that doesn't happen often. Meanwhile the number of carriers that were not in danger of actually sinking after getting hit by bombs only is far longer. All four Japanese Midway carriers had to be scuttled. Yorktown took a couple of bomb hits at Coral Sea but was ready for Midway a month later. At the same battle Shōkaku took a number of hits, but made it all the way back to Japan. During the Battle of the Eastern Solomons Enterprise was hit a few times, but was back in action two months later to engage at Santa Cruz. There she, like Shōkaku, again took a number of bomb hits without ever being in danger of sinking.

Indeed it was a very lucky shot but my point was, bomb damage can be fatal to a ship so no, you can't really say a carrier or any capital ship is proof against bomb damage.

Of course I would still prefer a torpedo for a surer kill in operational conditions, so no, I am not disputing that torpedoes are the better choice for capital ship destruction. But the point still stands.... A dive bomber wave alone is still a legit threat to the survival of capital ship.

On the other hand, look also at the critical torpedo damage scored on US fleet carriers in the Coral Sea and Solomons. Broken avgas tanks which set off a massive fire that gutted the ship and forced its abandonment for Lexington and the knocking out of Hornet's engines that crippled the ship and enabled the further torpedo hit from Ryujo's kanko to be fatal.

It is not impossible for these components to be damaged by bomb strikes instead, just that their placement would mean torpedo blasts have a much higher chance of hitting them.

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Yet, Franklin made it home.

It is possible, had the Japanese managed to secure the area, that they could have gotten Akagi and even some of the others home as well. But the general knowledge would put the Americans as more likely to save a ship with their damage control teams than the Japanese would.

Because Franklin was supported by friendly craft. If it were Guadalcanal or the Solomons where she was facing Kido Butai instead of piecemeal attacks by individual aircraft it may not have gone so well.

Again, this amount of devastation was done by a single kanbaku....what if it were a full strike in heavily contested waters?

[Marcus H.]

The November/AURA artwork of Pacific ships really are something of a different level to all the others. I read about the design concept of the USS Langley and they really put a lot of effort into going through the same brainstorming and research that the original Kancolle team has done. I also like how the USS Fleet Girls are much more mature looking than their IJN counterparts.

I bet their dream come true is for the concepts to be integrated into the game, but I wonder how the balancing will be handled.