Gundam Reconguista in G - Episode 4 Discussion / Poll

[kuroihikari2]

Originally Posted by Ryuuoh DeltaPlus

@Dr. Dahm : That is a very good insight indeed.

The current generation of fans only go after the mecha action and not on the depth of the story.

They want flashy beam spams and mindless sword slashing, and doesn't care if the characters or the world they're in are fleshed out in-depth.

I dunno... If there's a distinct lack of information, I wouldn't call it "Fleshed out" or "in-depth". This anime is the opposite of those other modern anime which are overly filled with talking exposition: This one has a distinct lack of information.

Without looking at external material, most of the international and domestic relations are a blur, and they just keep talking and talking about it as something important. The technology doesn't make sense unless you're familiar with the UC series. I've seen Unicorn and I'm still not sure what Minovsky flight does. And I don't know what kind of attack the G-Self used at the end of this episode before drawing the beam saber, nor why Dellensen was taken aback by the beam saber.

And while doing that you'll still have to decipher what's going on at the character level. It took awhile for it to sink in that Bellri was actually regretting killing Cahill. He was rationally, vigorously defending his actions just the previous episode, and now he's all too willing to turn traitor and risk his life to make amends for it. Most of what Noredo and Raraiya do still don't make sense, Noredo especially, since she's the sane one of the two.

What's good about it though is that all of the characters are likeable so far, so it's not like I'm repelled from watching it. But if this is Tomino's attempt at making a Gundam for this current age, he's not doing really well at it and "this is Tomino's style" is a really bad excuse.

[MaiNoKen]

Originally Posted by kuroihikari2

I dunno... If there's a distinct lack of information, I wouldn't call it "Fleshed out" or "in-depth". This anime is the opposite of those other modern anime which are overly filled with talking exposition: This one has a distinct lack of information.

Without looking at external material, most of the international and domestic relations are a blur, and they just keep talking and talking about it as something important. The technology doesn't make sense unless you're familiar with the UC series. I've seen Unicorn and I'm still not sure what Minovsky flight does. And I don't know what kind of attack the G-Self used at the end of this episode before drawing the beam saber, nor why Dellensen was taken aback by the beam saber.

And while doing that you'll still have to decipher what's going on at the character level. It took awhile for it to sink in that Bellri was actually regretting killing Cahill. He was rationally, vigorously defending his actions just the previous episode, and now he's all too willing to turn traitor and risk his life to make amends for it. Most of what Noredo and Raraiya do still don't make sense, Noredo especially, since she's the sane one of the two.

What's good about it though is that all of the characters are likeable so far, so it's not like I'm repelled from watching it. But if this is Tomino's attempt at making a Gundam for this current age, he's not doing really well at it and "this is Tomino's style" is a really bad excuse.

I think actual DVD sales figures will do the talking at the end.
To be frank, I watch everything, and I have watched newer to very old show. In fact I used to watch Attack#1 and original Gundam as a child on big CRTs that the bald guy under Okarin's home likes (to give you some proof that I watch everything so I know the memes ;-) )!
A true fan should be open to everything, and be ready to watch anything - new or old - with an open mind.

[kuroihikari2]

Originally Posted by MaiNoKen

I think actual DVD sales figures will do the talking at the end.
To be frank, I watch everything, and I have watched newer to very old show. In fact I used to watch Attack#1 and original Gundam as a child on big CRTs that the bald guy under Okarin's home likes (to give you some proof that I watch everything so I know the memes ;-) )!
A true fan should be open to everything, and be ready to watch anything - new or old - with an open mind.

Well, I'm not really a huge fan of the UC series (Only 0083 and Unicorn, and I didn't like 0083), but I still hope it succeeds. At this point it seems entirely possible that it will end up a great series to binge watch.

A failing Gundam show means the future of the franchise becomes blurry and I don't want that.

[Dr. Dahm]

Originally Posted by MaiNoKen

I think actual DVD sales figures will do the talking at the end.
To be frank, I watch everything, and I have watched newer to very old show. In fact I used to watch Attack#1 and original Gundam as a child on big CRTs that the bald guy under Okarin's home likes (to give you some proof that I watch everything so I know the memes ;-) )!
A true fan should be open to everything, and be ready to watch anything - new or old - with an open mind.

Model Kits. Blu-Rays are a secondary source of income for Gundam, it doesn't have to worry about those as much as other shows that have little merchandise. Pretty sure the kits have been doing just fine, particularly the G-Self and Grimoire.

[Skye629]

Originally Posted by Dr. Dahm

Model Kits. Blu-Rays are a secondary source of income for Gundam, it doesn't have to worry about those as much as other shows that have little merchandise. Pretty sure the kits have been doing just fine, particularly the G-Self and Grimoire.

To be frank though those are about the only kits out atm for G-Reco

[Dr. Dahm]

Originally Posted by Skye629

To be frank though those are about the only kits out atm for G-Reco

I thought the Montero and G-Arcane was out too.

[brightman]

Originally Posted by Dr. Dahm

I thought the Montero and G-Arcane was out too.

Both are out in Nov/Dec I think

[Skye629]

Originally Posted by Dr. Dahm

I thought the Montero and G-Arcane was out too.

Originally Posted by brightman

Both are out in Nov/Dec I think

^^^This

So far the most they got are out scans and the boxarts, these are followed next year by the Janahann (?) and the commander variant

[Haak]

Originally Posted by kuroihikari2

I dunno... If there's a distinct lack of information, I wouldn't call it "Fleshed out" or "in-depth". This anime is the opposite of those other modern anime which are overly filled with talking exposition: This one has a distinct lack of information.

Without looking at external material, most of the international and domestic relations are a blur, and they just keep talking and talking about it as something important. The technology doesn't make sense unless you're familiar with the UC series. I've seen Unicorn and I'm still not sure what Minovsky flight does. And I don't know what kind of attack the G-Self used at the end of this episode before drawing the beam saber, nor why Dellensen was taken aback by the beam saber.

And while doing that you'll still have to decipher what's going on at the character level. It took awhile for it to sink in that Bellri was actually regretting killing Cahill. He was rationally, vigorously defending his actions just the previous episode, and now he's all too willing to turn traitor and risk his life to make amends for it. Most of what Noredo and Raraiya do still don't make sense, Noredo especially, since she's the sane one of the two.

What's good about it though is that all of the characters are likeable so far, so it's not like I'm repelled from watching it. But if this is Tomino's attempt at making a Gundam for this current age, he's not doing really well at it and "this is Tomino's style" is a really bad excuse.

I don't know what the deal is with Tomino's writing but it definitely strikes me as haphazard. I only have the faintest idea what's going on due to lack of explanations and the pacing is just way too fast for me to fully register even the little tidbits I get. Right now I'd just wish the story would slow down a few notches and if that means toning down the action then I'm more than comfortable with that. We don't need flashy mecha fights and sudden plot twists at every turn. It's shows like this that make me feel bad for ragging on Argevollen during its opening episodes.

And it's the damn shame because the setting looks great and has so much potential. I wish i could engage with it but it always seems to be keeping me at arms length. It's frustrating as hell.

[brightman]

Originally Posted by Haak

I don't know what the deal is with Tomino's writing but it definitely strikes me as haphazard. I only have the faintest idea what's going on due to lack of explanations and the pacing is just way too fast for me to fully register even the little tidbits I get. Right now I'd just wish the story would slow down a few notches and if that means toning down the action then I'm more than comfortable with that. We don't need flashy mecha fights and sudden plot twists at every turn. It's shows like this that make me feel bad for ragging on Argevollen during its opening episodes.

And it's the damn shame because the setting looks great and has so much potential. I wish i could engage with it but it always seems to be keeping me at arms length. It's frustrating as hell.

That's just how Tomino's shows are. The first time you watch is always confusing as heck, but they are the type of show where every time you rewatch them you learn something new. He basically disregards all narrative structuring, takes a fully developed world and throw you right in the middle of it, so you'll have a lot of things to figure out. Definitely not for everybody but I think it's like turning up the difficulty in a video game - you actually need to put some effort, pay attention and try to read between the lines of dialogue. The payoffs are great if you do that IMO.

[Haak]

That just sounds like speculating to me...

Yeah I'm not really sure about this just being Tomino. When I watched the Mobile Suit Gundam films, it was a little confusing but i just figured it was because I was watching the films rather than the series. I do recall Zeta being a bit of blur but I don't really recall any issues of understanding or lack of emotional involvement. Even Victory Gundam's supposedly confusing beginning didn't strike me as remotely confusing at all.

Of course, the same tired trope of throwing you right in the middle of a conflict without any explanation has been a massive personal pet peeve of mine (and has been a notable issue for most of the Gundams I've watched including Tomino's) so that could be exacerbating things here, but I just don't really see any point in purposefully making the narrative difficult to follow. There are exceptional cases where I can appreciate it (e.g Memento) but otherwise I consider it massively inappropriate in these kind of otherwise straightforward settings.

[Dr. Dahm]

Originally Posted by Haak

That just sounds like speculating to me...

Yeah I'm not really sure about this just being Tomino. When I watched the Mobile Suit Gundam films, it was a little confusing but i just figured it was because I was watching the films rather than the series. I do recall Zeta being a bit of blur but I don't really recall any issues of understanding or lack of emotional involvement. Even Victory Gundam's supposedly confusing beginning didn't strike me as remotely confusing at all.

Of course, the same tired trope of throwing you right in the middle of a conflict without any explanation has been a massive personal pet peeve of mine (and has been a notable issue for most of the Gundams I've watched including Tomino's) so that could be exacerbating things here, but I just don't really see any point in purposefully making the narrative difficult to follow. There are exceptional cases where I can appreciate it (e.g Memento) but otherwise I consider it massively inappropriate in these kind of otherwise straightforward settings.

I'm not really finding the current narrative difficult to follow at all, then again I find most shows these days way to slow and boring for the most part whereas the pace of this feels kind of just right for me. There's always something going on which is nice. Also the way things are now there are a just a lot of mysteries and their isn't really an open conflict so much as some skirmishing going on. I continue to figure that we'll learn things as we need to know them and as some of the characters do and that's really all there is to it. The show just doesn't follow a typical modern structure of storytelling where everything is kept really simple as are the themes and character archetypes. To me that's all that's really going on here, but I guess I can understand why some people would have trouble with this as we just very rarely get shows like this anymore period where things aren't often kept at a glacial pace because it's based off of some light novel series with mostly talking and school settings in modern Tokyo for the sake of familiarity. Well that and it's a new setting we have know very little about really and lack the benefit of hindsight we do with his other series to know the order of events and where they might lead.

[brightman]

Originally Posted by Haak

That just sounds like speculating to me...

It's a personal observation, not speculation. I've rewatched the first four episodes and during the rewatch I always pick up things I missed previously that help me understand things better. And I'm enjoying the show immensely so far, with such a unqiue setting and likable set of characters. But that's just me.

[Westlo]

Originally Posted by MaiNoKen

I think actual DVD sales figures will do the talking at the end.

If Turn A sold fuck all 14 years ago what chance does this have in this day and age? No point looking @ strong early Amazon sales (that have hence weakened) that were probably done by Tomino fans who think Brainpowerd showed up Anno.... Forget about sales, just be happy if it ends up as good as Turn A.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Dr. Dahm

I'm not really finding the current narrative difficult to follow at all, then again I find most shows these days way to slow and boring for the most part whereas the pace of this feels kind of just right for me. There's always something going on which is nice. Also the way things are now there are a just a lot of mysteries and their isn't really an open conflict so much as some skirmishing going on. I continue to figure that we'll learn things as we need to know them and as some of the characters do and that's really all there is to it. The show just doesn't follow a typical modern structure of storytelling where everything is kept really simple as are the themes and character archetypes. To me that's all that's really going on here, but I guess I can understand why some people would have trouble with this as we just very rarely get shows like this anymore period where things aren't often kept at a glacial pace because it's based off of some light novel series with mostly talking and school settings in modern Tokyo for the sake of familiarity. Well that and it's a new setting we have know very little about really and lack the benefit of hindsight we do with his other series to know the order of events and where they might lead.

I’m a fan of Tomino's works (not all, but quite a number), but even I have to admit that his shows can be quite demanding (if not too demanding) to the audience. Sometimes, it’s basically come down to “You either follow & catches up with the flow of my narrative and deal with all the logical fallacy to get the ‘bigger picture’ or don’t waste your time with my show at all”. And let’s face it, not all audience nowadays is willing to give extra effort to pay that much attention to minute details he provided (sometimes relentlessly) through the characters dialogues and inner thoughts amid busy scenes, especially if they just want to sit back and relax while watching. I even believe that to enjoy a Tomino show, someone must have an inner urge to go through with it. Speaking of my personal experience, my first Gundam show is Wing & Endless Waltz (similar to those American kids). Then I checked out F91 just to see what's up with this movie. The first time I saw it, I only have a very general idea of what's going on (war between two factions. Kids got mixed up in it, etc). Other than that, everything was a bit confusng and the UC nods went over my head, and I was wondering why that girl from Crossbone Vanguard defected so easily to the Federation faction just because she's jealous that the captain that she likes was getting close to Berah (In my mind, I facepalmed so hard thinking how ridiculous it is). Then I encounter SEED. Later on, I learned that F91 is part of the original UC timeline. Then I brace myself to watch all the old UC shows just to know the events before F91 and what the Char-fuss is all about with expectation that I'm going to be turned off by the very simple animation compared to the more recent animation (at the time). I surprisingly ended up liking most of those shows (MSG, Zeta, 0080, 0083, 08th MS Team, Turn-A). Some I thought were okay (CCA, F91), and some made me shake my head in disbelief thinking "What the hell did I just watch?!" (ZZ & especially Victory). Out of those series, I think the toughest to follow are the ones made with Tomino's direct involvement. Following all those Tomino series is certainly a feat that I wouldn't be able to do without the determination to finish them and pay a great deal of attention on what is actually happening each episode. So, if casual watchers who just want to be entertained or casual/new Gundam fans who are used to the likes of SEED & 00 are complaining about the narrative in G-Reco (& Tomino's style in general), it's more than understandable as I also think that Tomino's style of storytelling is really not the best there is.

Also, if Tomino really wanted to make this show for today's audience, he really need to slow-down a bit. I think the gold standard of storytelling of nowadays’ audience would be something like SEED & 00 (seeing how popular those series are) where characters often slow down or stop first to provide the narrative (either by inner thoughts or them talking) and then do action instead of Tomino’s approach of “characters thinking/talking while something else is happening”. I mean, "slowing down a bit for the narrative to sink in" is certainly an advice Tomino could use. Contrary to what he might believe, slowing down doesn't necessarily make the pacing glacial (damn, look at Gundam 00. That was a fast-paced show). Add to that, Tomino’s penchant for wackiness can further drive some people away. I was hoping that he would refine his techniques a little bit, but alas, this style of narrative & wackiness is similar to Victory so far. I really hope it gets better though as I can see this episode 4 is better than episode 1 & 3 imo.

[fr3@ky_g]

Someone used the built-in toilet again. +_+ What's with built-in toilets and Mobil Suits?

[s07195]

The only thing I don't understand is why shouting SU-Cord does anything, and why Bellri doesn't seem surprised for G-Self to suddenly activate a Shield type ability.

I'm surprisingly enjoying this so far, waiting to see where it goes. I can always consult you guys and your long posts when I need help understanding.