2011-07-19, 12:59 | Link #1 |
AS Oji-kun
Join Date: Nov 2006
Age: 74
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Status of Geneon titles discontinued by Funimation
As you probably know, when Geneon USA packed up its bags and departed the New World a few years back, it contracted with Funimation to distribute some of its titles. (Funimation did not become the licensor in this arrangement, just a distributor for Geneon.) That deal ended in December of last year, and there are now a number of titles that have fallen into licensing limbo. Some of these are well-known and admired shows like Black Lagoon, Saiunkoku Monogatari, Paradise Kiss, and Higurashi.
Most of these shows are now generally impossible to purchase in R1. All four titles I listed are no longer available from retailers like RightStuf, nor is there any indication from either Geneon or Funimation that many of them will ever be re-released in R1. Other series whose R1 licenses have expired or otherwise terminated have been restored to the AS home page, Sailor Moon being a prominent example. Have you thought about whether the same policy should apply to these now-unavailable Geneon titles?
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2011-07-20, 00:41 | Link #2 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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Another example of what happens when properties are obstructed from passing into the public domain. (sigh)
I think GHDPro and company are discussing it... only answering just in case everyone is "out on break".
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2011-07-20, 17:01 | Link #3 |
One PUNCH!
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2005
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So far the only confirmation of titles Funimation is letting expire are Higurashi and Familiar of Zero. Both titles have been removed from the licensed list.
As for the others, I don't know their current status. |
2011-07-20, 20:05 | Link #4 |
AS Oji-kun
Join Date: Nov 2006
Age: 74
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I'm just relying on what I observe. You can no longer purchase the R1 releases of shows like Black Lagoon or Saiunkoku Monogatari except from third parties. I did find a copy of the complete set of Paradise Kiss at BestBuy, but what they claim they have and what they actually can ship are sometimes two different things. (I bought Oh! Edo Rocket v.1 from them; they couldn't fulfill the order and cancelled it.) However I can't buy a copy of ParaKiss from RightStuf. I didn't check all the titles on the original list from RAS, but I'm guessing the results would be the same.
Right now, I'd consider these shows unlicensed in R1. Perhaps Funimation will someday cut another deal with Geneon; perhaps Geneon will find another distributor like Aniplex; or, perhaps these titles will languish in licensing limbo. We simply don't know. I can understand the argument that Geneon is itself the licensor since it sold these properties through its now-defunct US affiliate then licensed their distribution to Funimation. Is that what you think is the status of these titles in R1? If so, then that's fine, but it would seem to apply to Higurashi and Zero no Tsukaima as well, no? The evidence you point to is ANN's coverage of a posting by a member of Funi's acquisitions department talking specifically about low sales of Higurashi in the Higurashi forum. I'm sure you know that the decision to discontinue sales of this particular title led to widespread moaning in the anime community, so it isn't that surprising to see this guy's post. The "when-they-cry" forum had over fifty postings, compared to one in the main Saiunkoku forum. I see his posting more as a personal gesture by a Funi employee to Higurashi fans than as an official pronouncement from the company itself. I doubt we're going to hear much from Funi about anything in the days ahead since it went private once more. I certainly don't think they're going to go around confirming the fact that they no longer have a deal with Geneon, and that the titles they were distributing will no longer be available. I think it's remarkable that the only way we heard about any of this was a posting from Robert, not an official pronouncement from either Funimation or Geneon. As it stands today, I cannot direct people to legitimate copies of these shows in postings here. I cannot direct them to fansubbed versions either. I will not direct them to illegal streaming sites, especially those that exploit the work of fansubbers. Sad, really.
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2011-07-20, 23:05 | Link #6 | |
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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It sounds like we need some sort of standard in terms of what counts as an "abandoned license". I raised this topic once not too long ago with some of the staff when the Higurashi/ZnT situation came up.
In the case of these Geneon licenses, what seems to be the case is that Funimation was simply acting as the distributor for Geneon for a certain time period, and then once that period elapsed they would have the option (as would any licensor, I suppose) of renewing the licenses for those shows they figure are worthy of a reprint. A clear statement was made that Funimation would not be relicensing those two series in particular, hence the decision to re-list the fansubs. But as was pointed out, it's not necessarily the case that they will always announce this "discontinuation"; the reason for the statement in these cases is probably more that there were unlicensed sequel series and a small but vocal fanbase that kept asking. Other shows may just slip away quietly never to be mentioned again. The distribution deal with Geneon is now up, so I think a good argument can be made that if the show is out of print now with no streaming opportunities or any signs/mention of any possible reprintings, the license should be considered "abandoned" or "dead". I do think we need some sort of standard way of classifying these that should include things like a definition of "unavailable" (can't be purchased new at major online retailers and difficult to acquire used?) and some sort of minimum time frame since the last release (2 years? 3 years?). All that the current Listing Policy says about this case is as follows: Quote:
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2011-07-21, 04:40 | Link #7 | |||
sleepyhead
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: event horizon
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2011-08-23, 09:56 | Link #8 | |
Excessively jovial fellow
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: ISDB-T
Age: 37
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2011-08-23, 12:05 | Link #9 | |
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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I think it's possible that an exception could be made if there were a case where the licensed DVD was no longer available, and those were the only subs for the show around (short of re-translating from scratch)... but I don't think we'll run into such a case for shows produced in the last decade, as there should be fansubs around for all of them. I heard of a case at one point where a group was taking some old no-longer-available show from LaserDisc and editing the original subs for the digital fansub. I suppose (theoretically at least) that we would probably list such a thing. Incidentally, to the topic proper, I noticed that Funimation recently announced the license expiration for a number of additional Geneon shows.
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2011-08-31, 08:04 | Link #10 | ||||
AS Oji-kun
Join Date: Nov 2006
Age: 74
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We also have this reported comment from Sophie about two other titles: Quote:
From what I've read, a lot of this mess is a consequence of the merger of Universal Japan and Geneon. Some titles apparently need relicensing since they are now owned by the merged entity.
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Last edited by SeijiSensei; 2011-08-31 at 08:24. |
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2011-08-31, 17:56 | Link #11 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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Guess I'd better put my Kamichu! in the Nuclear Resistant Deep Safe.
This just pisses me off from a cultural perspective. A lot of Hollywood films I grew up with are no longer available *anywhere* because they didn't put them in the public domain and they didn't take care of the masters or copies or anything. Note to self: buy some hard drives and rip all my DVD library to them for defensive purposes and maintenance of things no longer available.
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2013-07-21, 07:27 | Link #12 |
AS Oji-kun
Join Date: Nov 2006
Age: 74
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I am resuscitating this thread in the light of VIZ's having lost the license to Monster recently. I suspect we'll see more properties fall out of licensing in the years ahead. Have you all given any more thought on relisting series with expired licenses? As an example, I notice that season one of Saiunkoku Monogatari still has not been restored to the list of series on the main page.
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2013-07-21, 13:57 | Link #13 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
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2013-07-21, 14:40 | Link #14 | |
(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻
Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2006
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I do agree with you that we're reaching a point of slow decline in licensing, compared to the boom at least. I expect a lot of older series to lapse, particularly the more obscure ones. But I'm not convinced we should bother with listing or re-listing them, personally. Other staff might disagree with me, but personally I believe the main site's purpose ceased to be relevant years ago. If we do decide to revamp it, I'd rather see it oriented more toward being a better portal for the forums. It's a good opportunity to improve the social aspects of the site: advertising social groups, community blogs, series announcements, thread highlights, and stuff like that. Besides, moving away from the legal hassles of downloads offers opportunities that we're otherwise unable to benefit from currently.
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2013-07-21, 16:03 | Link #15 |
AS Oji-kun
Join Date: Nov 2006
Age: 74
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Even if you don't relist the shows, what about referring to them in forum postings? I'm careful not to link to licensed content, or unlicensed content on sites that also distribute licensed materials. Since Monster can no longer be viewed on Hulu, I would like to link to a torrent, probably one at Nyaa. I'd like to do the same for a few other series like Saiunkoku that I recommend from time to time. Can we agree that linking to a series whose license has expired does not violate Forum Rule 1.1? I take it I can only link to fansub torrents of the original release, not any fansubbed versions that are based on DVD or BD rips.
What about Nyaa itself? I see torrents listed on the main series page that link to Nyaa, so I've assumed you all are okay with that as opposed to a certain "crazy" site that has a lot of licensed shows.
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2013-07-22, 03:21 | Link #16 | |
(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻
Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2006
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But given that Viz never finished releasing Monster in the first place, and has now lost the license, it does make for an interesting twist on the rules. We can't point to a completed release and say "yeah, it's not licensed anymore, but you can still get it", because that's not true. So the only way to watch all of it, for all of these years, has been illegal streams/torrents. In this case Nyaa is fine, for now. Just bear in mind that we always reserve the right to get a mood swing and turn cranky.
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Tags |
funimation, geneon, licensed |
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