Monogatari Series Second Season - Episode 19 Discussion / Poll (Hitagi End II)

[ndqanh_vn]

Originally Posted by ThereminVox

And what an amazing "Ah-ha!" moment when Nadeko reacted to being called creepy. I almost wish Kaiki hadn't called so much attention to it, because it was such a defining character moment for her, and I really didn't feel like he needed to explain by that point why she'd react with such liberated bliss to being told that she wasn't cute.

Well, I think it made sense in the context. Kaiki is the narrator and we are following his reasoning and observation based on the facts that he just founds (he has not the luxury of reading Nadeko Snake before like readers to "just know" about Nadeko's condition) I actually appreciate his inner explanation: it shows how logical and rational his observation and conclusion is.

He really seems like a detective in this arc )

[velvet nightmare]

Originally Posted by ThereminVox

Holy shit, this arc is absolute gold so far. The episodes feel like they're over in a heartbeat. Everything I love about Monogatari.

I just watched Nisemonogatari's first episode again a few weeks ago, so as soon as Kaiki talked his way into Nadeko's room, I just started mentally chanting "closet, closet, closet, closet!!" No dice though, I guess. What an eerie family.

And what an amazing "Ah-ha!" moment when Nadeko reacted to being called creepy. I almost wish Kaiki hadn't called so much attention to it, because it was such a defining character moment for her, and I really didn't feel like he needed to explain by that point why she'd react with such liberated bliss to being told that she wasn't cute.

without the narrative any epiphany moments would have been lost due to the context of nadeko simply being insane

eg. after saying i will kill the person i love, everything said after that will simply be implied as gibberish without being explicitly told otherwise)

the beauty of this episode is the contrast of insanity and logic. how kaiki is able to make sense of the whole situation in a single visit while araragi is still going back to get beaten up and ignored.

[dmaxzero]

Originally Posted by velvet nightmare

without the narrative any epiphany moments would have been lost due to the context of nadeko simply being insane

eg. after saying i will kill the person i love, everything said after that will simply be implied as gibberish without being explicitly told otherwise)

the beauty of this episode is the contrast of insanity and logic. how kaiki is able to make sense of the whole situation in a single visit while araragi is still going back to get beaten up and ignored.

Yes, its the main flaw of Araragi as a character. It´s what, in my opinion, makes me bored of the series from time to time. He does not think, does not make use of his power and his stance to problems is repetitive and completely non effective.

[ndqanh_vn]

Originally Posted by dmaxzero

Yes, its the main flaw of Araragi as a character. It´s what, in my opinion, makes me bored of the series from time to time. He does not think, does not make use of his power and his stance to problems is repetitive and completely non effective.

We all know Araragi's method too well. Every arc seems to include somebody beating the crap out of him. And somehow it works (???) I don;t like the ending of Tsukihi Phoenix for that reason, as his opponent is stronger both in power and mentality, there's not much going on in term of argurment, but after kicking his ass and listenning to some of his ramblings (which I see as not convincing enough for somebody to change their mind), Kagenui suddenly called it a day and quit.


I am not very suprised when he claimed to be a M.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by ndqanh_vn

We all know Araragi's method too well. Every arc seems to include somebody beating the crap out of him. And somehow it works (???) I don;t like the ending of Tsukihi Phoenix for that reason, as his opponent is stronger both in power and mentality, there's not much going on in term of argurment, but after kicking his ass and listenning to some of his ramblings (which I see as not convincing enough for somebody to change their mind), Kagenui suddenly called it a day and quit.


I am not very suprised when he claimed to be a M.

See, that's because you didn't understand Kagenui very well; she listen to him because she isn't evil.

She had the best of intentions in getting rid of a parasite that was living in someone's home, she did this because she believe it is for the greater good. He was able to talk her out of it because she is not malicious and care about his opinions.

She didn't come to his home because she wants to murder somebody's sister; she came to do a public service. And if she can be convinced that her help is not needed then she would leave.

[Altima of the Gates]

Originally Posted by dmaxzero

Yes, its the main flaw of Araragi as a character. It´s what, in my opinion, makes me bored of the series from time to time. He does not think, does not make use of his power and his stance to problems is repetitive and completely non effective.

Not quite true. He does think, but his thinking process is different from most people. Like Kaiki, he has a troublesome personality, but so does everyone in this series at some point in time. Though you should be getting a bit if refreshment this season, since things are being shown from alternate perspectives besides Araragi's.

[dmaxzero]

Originally Posted by Altima of the Gates

Not quite true. He does think, but his thinking process is different from most people. Like Kaiki, he has a troublesome personality, but so does everyone in this series at some point in time. Though you should be getting a bit if refreshment this season, since things are being shown from alternate perspectives besides Araragi's.

Indeed, seeing Kaiki being the lead in these 2 episodes was great.
That Araragi thinking process is different, is not a reason that work even as an excuse; its like defending an idiot just because he is different, when he is only an idiot.

I do realize that is something that has to do with tastes and how we perceive things. I am not asking for a powerful hero nor a typical MC that solves all, but at least to use his head, even if he loses but a proper thinking process, not his classical I will not give up, and I will not lose speech of him. Once was nice, twice its ok, but its always, or most of the time the same.

But oh well, nothing to do really. I am just expressing my discomfort with it.

[silvercover]

well I cant disagree there... the only time I remember araragi actually showing some acute awareness was during nadeko's arc where he realized there were 2 snakes instead of just 1. other times its generally the other characters who end up telling araragi all the information/solving the problem for him.

[ndqanh_vn]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

See, that's because you didn't understand Kagenui very well; she listen to him because she isn't evil.

She had the best of intentions in getting rid of a parasite that was living in someone's home, she did this because she believe it is for the greater good. He was able to talk her out of it because she is not malicious and care about his opinions.

She didn't come to his home because she wants to murder somebody's sister; she came to do a public service. And if she can be convinced that her help is not needed then she would leave.

No, I understand the author intention, but it did not get the best execution in my opinion. It is a strange emotion that when you were watching, you kinda guess what the author want you to think, but you cannot stop your mind to think "That's riddiculous." Either way after listening to his ramblings, I cannot find them really convincing. I don't really feel the bond of the Araragi siblings, even though it is spelt into my face by the author. The flow of the story in Nise is quite jumpy , I always regards it as the weakest book in Monogatari series. It introduced Kaiki, however, so I don't really hate it.

But it is weird that it got a full season, while other books got cramped into the season we are watching.

Anyways, it is a good change to see a narrator whose train of thought we can follow and found his reasoning reasonable, rather than some kid spending 3/4 of the novel molesting girls, wasting his time and suddenly came up with a cool speech at the end because the plot kinda request it.

Speaking of which, I think Koi would be the last novel, and the last anime of Monogatari that I would keep in my mind. The later ones seemed like being written just to fill the plot holes, and I want to keep the best memories of the franchise when it is still at its best.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by ndqanh_vn

Speaking of which, I think Koi would be the last novel, and the last anime of Monogatari that I would keep in my mind. The later ones seemed like being written just to fill the plot holes, and I want to keep the best memories of the franchise when it is still at its best.

You don't want to see the next arc? A pity as I liked it.

And of course there is Hana too.