Bakemonogatari - Episode 5 Discussion / Poll

[Shikijin]

Well, there are people who may simple be attracted by abusive characters like Senjougahara. Personally I was in for Hanekawa. Anyway, what I think the main attractiveness of the series really is is the meta-humor. There are times (most of the times) when the characters behave in an absurdly foolish cartoonish manner and times when things get serious.

There is an adjective in Japan, "otonashii". It comes from the word "adult" and means "obedient / docile / quiet", which is the way a Japanese adult should ideally behave like. Characters like Senjougahara are actually described as "immature", in the sense that the act she puts on one day will eventually cease and she will become a proper adult like everyone else. The same goes for the other characters. It's difficult to tell if they are real people who behave like they were in an anime or anime people who know how real people should behave (at least for Araragi).

As for the dialogues, it is a narrative technique that people may or may not like. Instead of directly presenting the main issue, the author deliberately stalls the discussion with nonsense for a whole chapter while building anticipation, and then at the end of the chapter he drops the bomb.

The jokes were thought for readers of the light novels, so some may be lost in the anime, especially for the non-Japanese viewer. For example, the name of Araragi is written 阿良々木. A-ra-ra-gi. The kanji 々 doesn't mean anything on itself, it's "repeat the kanji before". When Hachikuji stutters Araragi's name, she says 阿良々々木, which has two 々 in a row (highly unlikely, reinforcing the concept that she stutters on purpose). The joke is amusing if you know Japanese.

Don't worry about Senjougahara, she actually doesn't have that big of a role anyway. Take her like a joke on the fact main characters mostly end up with tsundere, so she had to have some tsuntsun (aloof/morose/pointed). She possibly may be idolized a bit in the show as you say, but things like that happen. For example every girl likes Araragi. I agree things like that could be detrimental for a show, but as Senjougahara doesn't have much focus in the whole series of books it doesn't get out of hand.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by Shikijin

Well, there are people who may simple be attracted by abusive characters like Senjougahara. Personally I was in for Hanekawa. Anyway, what I think the main attractiveness of the series really is is the meta-humor. There are times (most of the times) when the characters behave in an absurdly foolish cartoonish manner and times when things get serious.

There is an adjective in Japan, "otonashii". It comes from the word "adult" and means "obedient / docile / quiet", which is the way a Japanese adult should ideally behave like. Characters like Senjougahara are actually described as "immature", in the sense that the act she puts on one day will eventually cease and she will become a proper adult like everyone else. The same goes for the other characters. It's difficult to tell if they are real people who behave like they were in an anime or anime people who know how real people should behave (at least for Araragi).

As for the dialogues, it is a narrative technique that people may or may not like. Instead of directly presenting the main issue, the author deliberately stalls the discussion with nonsense for a whole chapter while building anticipation, and then at the end of the chapter he drops the bomb.

The jokes were thought for readers of the light novels, so some may be lost in the anime, especially for the non-Japanese viewer. For example, the name of Araragi is written 阿良々木. A-ra-ra-gi. The kanji 々 doesn't mean anything on itself, it's "repeat the kanji before". When Hachikuji stutters Araragi's name, she says 阿良々々木, which has two 々 in a row (highly unlikely, reinforcing the concept that she stutters on purpose). The joke is amusing if you know Japanese.

Don't worry about Senjougahara, she actually doesn't have that big of a role anyway. Take her like a joke on the fact main characters mostly end up with tsundere, so she had to have some tsuntsun (aloof/morose/pointed). She possibly may be idolized a bit in the show as you say, but things like that happen. For example every girl likes Araragi. I agree things like that could be detrimental for a show, but as Senjougahara doesn't have much focus in the whole series of books it doesn't get out of hand.

Interesting, I'll keep some of this in mind going forward then. And yeah one of the parts that actually made me laugh was when Meme I think it was referred to Senjougahara as Tsundere-chan. A part of me thinks the show is very much aware of what it is at times, but that's still not enough for me to really get into it yet, but yeah those occasional fourth wall breaks where they seem to be saying, "isn't this just ridiculous and contrived" are the parts where I've found myself laughing and enjoying the watch. I'd kind of have to hope for more of them going forward.

[zato_1one]

I'd say that this series is all about Araragi and Senjougahara. Each arc reflects and develops their relationship. Even if she isn't there, you should still feel her presence. The storytelling relies on rapid-fire dialogue and constant wordplay. It doesn't suitable for everyone, of course. If you don't like the dialogue then you will never like it because it's the core of the series.

[omimon]

Originally Posted by zato_1one

I'd say that this series is all about Araragi and Senjougahara. Each arc reflects and develops their relationship. Even if she isn't there, you should still feel her presence.

...No, I don't think that is true. Even if we ignore everything that happens after the original two books, Senjougahare has 0 importance in Snake.

[zato_1one]

Originally Posted by omimon

...No, I don't think that is true. Even if we ignore everything that happens after the original two books, Senjougahare has 0 importance in Snake.

Because it's a spoiler at this point.

Spoiler for Nadeko arc:

Senjougahara asked Kanbaru to get along with Araragi which led them to meet Nadeko. Without Kanbaru, you would never see Nadeko in swimsuit. Although, Senjougahara wasn't the main focus but she still involved in each arc more or less. Well, Nadeko arc is actually my least favorite anyway.

[Shikijin]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

Interesting, I'll keep some of this in mind going forward then. And yeah one of the parts that actually made me laugh was when Meme I think it was referred to Senjougahara as Tsundere-chan. A part of me thinks the show is very much aware of what it is at times, but that's still not enough for me to really get into it yet, but yeah those occasional fourth wall breaks where they seem to be saying, "isn't this just ridiculous and contrived" are the parts where I've found myself laughing and enjoying the watch. I'd kind of have to hope for more of them going forward.

Well, I liked what I saw in Bakemonogatari so much I learned some Japanese and read all the other books. Now, I haven't rewatched Bakemonogatari in a while, and end the end I didn't even read all the first two books. I talk having a long run prospective in mind, but I can say that most parts have some metanarrative appeal. Aside from jokes based on the graphical aspect of kanji (more like breaking the fourth wall, Nisio is breaking the fourth page ), Araragi has a lot of reflections on what he is discussing about. The interior monologue of Araragi possibly has to be cut in most places to save time in the anime, so this aspect may be lost. You can still see though that he gets weirded out, which I found intriguing. Kyon for example can see that Haruhi is eccentric and may even find her obnoxious, but he still remains within the range of normal interaction. In Bakemonogatari sometimes things devolve into outright manzai comedy. Araragi also can play both the straight man and the funny man, adding to his character.

Originally Posted by zato_1one

I'd say that this series is all about Araragi and Senjougahara. Each arc reflects and develops their relationship. Even if she isn't there, you should still feel her presence.

It seems the series was originally planned to not last that long. With that in mind it is natural that Senjougahara, as Araragi's main girl, should have had some spotlight. In a way, she is indeed a pillar in Bakemonogatari. I could argue that even then she wasn't created to be totally invasive in the storyline though. For example the prequel about Kissshot belongs to a period of time when Araragi still didn't know Senjougahara, and thus didn't interact with her. I think her main purpose in the story was to show the passage of time. The progress of her relationship with Araragi kind of becomes the progress in the story. When Nisio started expanding the story after Nisemonogatari though, the fact Senjougahara had not much room for development compared to some other characters became a handicap for her, or at least so I think.

[applejuice]

Originally Posted by omimon

...No, I don't think that is true. Even if we ignore everything that happens after the original two books, Senjougahare has 0 importance in Snake.

...Nope, this is wrong. Saying zero importance means you are ignoring something important about it.

[omimon]

Originally Posted by applejuice

...Nope, this is wrong. Saying zero importance means you are ignoring something important about it.

What is it then?