[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Last Sinner

Big time. But it could be seen coming. Network predicted in 1976 that the point of media was to get you mad. And oh boy, isn't that exactly what is happening now. We've raised two generations of people to get mad easily and to socially regress. And how this also factors into the anime scene is that in the 2000s, we were forced to be more social to be anime fans. You had to go to an anime club/gathering to get hold of/see anime. You were grateful for what you got. People you met didn't have to agree with everything you liked or said - agree with enough and get along from there. You learned that finding something good was valuable and how to engage in relatively civil conversation with others. But the era of convenience and being able to find enough people who will agree with what you say or face condemnation for differing, for being able to dish out revenge without showing your face or real name.

Yeah, you really nailed this right on the head. I think the thing that really drew people in this forum in the first place (besides the torrent listings) was that people were exciting to find other passionate anime fans that liked discussing anime in a relatively civil way. Obviously people didn't always get along and sometimes we mods had to step in to keep the relative peace but all in all it was fun to be a bit of a melting pot with people with different perspectives/experiences talking about anime and keeping up as new episodes released week to week. Even though the social factor wasn't nearly as forced as in the era you're referring to -- where the only way to get some anime was to get out there literally to clubs/gatherings -- even this forum is still fundamentally a social experience.

Now, perhaps ironically, it feels like social media isn't really "social" in that sense -- for the most part, there's no desire to find common ground and no perceived value in having civil conversations with others who have different opinions than you. Everything is a battlefield where your side has to defeat the other side, and everyone is constantly mad about everything (and keep seeking things that make them even more mad and entrenched). The conversations are dominated by "influencers" that are seeking the most provocative ways to tell people what to think and what to be riled up about this instant because outrage fuels clicks in an endless cycle.

I don't know how we collective get out of this loop. Maybe some people will just wake up one day and go "what the heck am I doing?" and start seeking real social connection again.

Originally Posted by Last Sinner

Anime has been good for decades. Different things made it good in each of them. Visuals have become better in some ways but worse in others. What people are induced to want to see/buy has changed. In any era, there were genres that dominated (mechs, shoujo, high school, isekai, the eternal presence of shounen).

One thing that I always found fascinating on this forum over the years it at that every broad trend cycle you'd get a small group of people make a forum thread that was basically "anime has gone to hell due to <new trend>, it was so much better before when there was more of <previous trend>." Besides whatever the trends in question were, the arguments were always exactly the same, and invariably not at all about anime being good or bad, but about people's interests naturally shifting, people overdosing and burning out, and about trends coming in and out of style. What these inevitably needed to do was just to self-reflect and realize that the problem isn't really that anime changed as much as it is that they've changed; the whole anger was a sort of way of processing their grief that this thing that was once a center of their identity is fading. And after getting it out of their system, most of those people did just end up moving on, though some ended up appreciating anime on new terms after they addressed their burn out.

Originally Posted by Last Sinner

What is sad though is in an era where people have the most chance to embrace anime's history and chronicle it, it's condemned or people are their most reluctant ever to go back beyond a certain point. I've always felt new fans feel a barrier of ~2 years back for most of what they want to try initially. But I feel in an era of convenience where there's more to look at from now, they don't want to try to look at an older title while it's available, then when it's gone they don't know about it or want to seek it out unless they want to set sail on the high seas. I've bothered to collect titles big time over the last couple of years because sure, there are other ways to get it, but for the good times it's given me, I want to do my part and have something to show for it. It's getting darn expensive, but at least I'm near complete on titles to still get that meet the 8/10 or better line.

Yeah, this has been a problem for a while and it keeps getting progressively worse. Even here on this forum, as I've gotten busier over the years it's been harder to keep up with shows on a weekly basis rather than binging them when I have time, but the window of conversation is exceptionally short. And never mind if I go to the backlog and watch a show from a few seasons back, the discussion is fully dead. Never mind shows from even a few years ago. I slowed down my collection of DVDs/BDs in recent years (no more space unless I move! lol) but there are definitely some gems there that deserve wider recognition so I'm glad to have them in my collection.

Originally Posted by Last Sinner

The fact there's less people is why I bother here. So that there isn't a herd mentality forcing people to agree with the majority. People aren't trying to be first/be fast/be viral. We'd just like to voice how we felt and see how others did. We don't have to agree on everything. And the presence of people like Gigguk, Mother's Basement and the like doesn't help or those wanting to go viral by watching certain scenes or having certain memes be regular. They induce major herd mentality, particularly after the industry offered them the bag to promote certain titles. I'd rather watch a channel like Kenny Lauderdale who likes to talk about titles/eras almost no one discusses. It's ironic that Odd Taxi addressed the whole viral thing and even got buzz to the point of Crunchyroll awards for being different while being damn good, but is likely already forgotten by anyone entering the fray now or who took 2021 off. There is a notion that those big channels plug - 'Anime - made by degenerates, for degenerates.' There seems to be some warped pride in being cringe/an outcast, while other pockets take the residency of 'this is inoffensive enough to like, cancel this title for daring to take a stand though' (looking right at you, ANN).

Definitely as anime has become an easily consumed commodity (easy convenient no-download online streaming to a level barely imaginable when this site first launched), there is less of this concept of being a "connoisseur" of anime as a medium. The popular influencers are focused on being "in the moment" and getting ahead of the latest meme, but timeless, deep discussion is more rare. And, well, in fairness probably this is the natural state for most people who consume any sort of popular, accessible media -- it's just that, in the past, the lack of availability limited the audience to a much smaller, more passionate group. I do think the latter still exists though (even if they're more easily drowned out). I hope there will be a hunger among some people for some more "thoughtful" discussions as people start seeing the social media outrage engine for what it is and looking for something more "real" in the years to come.

Originally Posted by Last Sinner

Honestly, the notion of flawed for stellar characters working out their issues over time in a rational sense via struggle was what drew me into Summertime Rendering. And honestly, some of the stuff that happens in that title can get silly and a bit ecchi then it flipped the serious switch with ease. But damn, it was fun, I felt that utter zest for the next episode, it was great discussion here while it aired. And as for the golden age of these forums, those fiery discussions over Code Geass were epic. Title definitely had its flaws (such is making a 25 ep title into 50) but damn, it was such a magnet to see ASAP and discuss it to the max. Back in the aftermath of the KyoAni fire, I remember friends gathered around for a night of their titles, then we marathoned Full Metal Panic Fumoffu soon after, which was the very definition of being utterly whack and definitely wasn't perfect, but damn, it was great to view with others. Group stuck around for a year going through Princess Tutu, Aria, Oregairu amongst others before the rona made us go back into hermit mode. I sometimes feel that the more daring/crazy titles can make for better discussion. If you're going into a discussion trying to justify a defense of an epic, it's bound to go haywire. Not sure it'd be a good group viewing either. Heck, one of my most amusing memories ever was when I secured the national premiere of the Eva 3.0 movie in Australia and 1,000 people rocked up. The moment where Kaoru and Shinji were playing the piano sent them into the most intense group laughter I ever saw. And in a sense, Evangelion probably induces so much conversation for being a combo of whack and flawed. But things wouldn't be the way there are today without it. It truly is a point it time where before and after are very different.

Yeah, definitely if you look at this forum over the years, besides your shounen staples, the shows that generated the most passionate discussion were always the flawed one that kept people hooked. Probably the most epic forum meltdown we had over the years was Shuffle!, of all things -- the whole reason subforums started requiring approval for generating new threads stemmed from that! And maybe the quality of discussion wasn't always top-rate, but the passion everyone had to watch the show ASAP every week just to part of that discussion made everything exciting. There are a lot of other shows that are considered truly timeless classics but never generated all that much discussion around here because it just didn't lend itself as much to speculation or have as many flaws/issues to hotly debate.

And yeah, Eva is a great example of the kind of show that lends itself to great discussion -- absolutely flawed work but full of things to talk about, lots of place for speculation/interpretation, full of memorable moments, and everyone has an opinion on the ending. Probably a lot of the best anime for discussion have something in common with Eva's approach, intentionally or not.