[Last Sinner]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

Obviously this is a side-topic, but I definitely think social media has changed a lot in the last ~decade or so. Before, it felt like there were a lot of communities there but they were largely kept separate of each other despite all being in this giant space -- I could start talking about some random anime and I'd get feedback from a small group of other anime fans. But now, it seems a lot more about communities colliding and fighting each other all the time. Due to certain reasons, even having an anime character as an avatar is a cause for stigma, regardless of what you may say. It just feels... exhausting. I've more or less tuned out of social media entirely as a result, even though it's not like anything happened to me personally. Maybe it's just the natural progression of anything going from niche to quasi-mainstream and attracting a lot of attention. All this is years ago preceding all the latest changes and drama, but it doesn't entirely surprise me that we've gotten to this point.

Big time. But it could be seen coming. Network predicted in 1976 that the point of media was to get you mad. And oh boy, isn't that exactly what is happening now. We've raised two generations of people to get mad easily and to socially regress. And how this also factors into the anime scene is that in the 2000s, we were forced to be more social to be anime fans. You had to go to an anime club/gathering to get hold of/see anime. You were grateful for what you got. People you met didn't have to agree with everything you liked or said - agree with enough and get along from there. You learned that finding something good was valuable and how to engage in relatively civil conversation with others. But the era of convenience and being able to find enough people who will agree with what you say or face condemnation for differing, for being able to dish out revenge without showing your face or real name.

I think you're hitting on a key point here in that a lot of these people came from a place where their idea of what anime is, or should be, is defined within certain constraints/ideals. At that point in their life, anime meant something to them (or at least, discussion of anime did). A lot of the criticism stemmed from wanting to see anime get better (from their point of view), or wanting to further a discussion among their peers. And probably, from the perspective of some others who didn't agree with their views, that seemed a bit like "gatekeeping" -- people who liked the "bad" anime were a problem that were keeping anime from being "good." In the end, though, you can't really stop the progress of time and the natural ebb and flow of people's interests and changing trends. Eventually, things change and people just move on.

Anime has been good for decades. Different things made it good in each of them. Visuals have become better in some ways but worse in others. What people are induced to want to see/buy has changed. In any era, there were genres that dominated (mechs, shoujo, high school, isekai, the eternal presence of shounen). What is sad though is in an era where people have the most chance to embrace anime's history and chronicle it, it's condemned or people are their most reluctant ever to go back beyond a certain point. I've always felt new fans feel a barrier of ~2 years back for most of what they want to try initially. But I feel in an era of convenience where there's more to look at from now, they don't want to try to look at an older title while it's available, then when it's gone they don't know about it or want to seek it out unless they want to set sail on the high seas. I've bothered to collect titles big time over the last couple of years because sure, there are other ways to get it, but for the good times it's given me, I want to do my part and have something to show for it. It's getting darn expensive, but at least I'm near complete on titles to still get that meet the 8/10 or better line.

Obviously that extends to this forum too. Clearly it's a lot smaller and quieter than it used to be because a lot of people moved on (and the fact we no longer have a torrent tracker means the primary thing driving people here in the first place no longer exists). I sometimes felt in the past like this was some sort of failure, like maybe we should have done more to bring in new interest and keep things alive... but really, a lot of people have just moved on. Even if they may still enjoy anime (I still enjoy it!), at least I personally don't have as much patience and passion for the long discussions we had back in the day. But there is still value to this place as a quieter place to discuss anime and related culture with a smaller group that is a bit isolated from the much wider "noise" of general-purpose social media, so it still serves a purpose for as long as it makes sense for our kind owner to keep paying the server bills.

The fact there's less people is why I bother here. So that there isn't a herd mentality forcing people to agree with the majority. People aren't trying to be first/be fast/be viral. We'd just like to voice how we felt and see how others did. We don't have to agree on everything. And the presence of people like Gigguk, Mother's Basement and the like doesn't help or those wanting to go viral by watching certain scenes or having certain memes be regular. They induce major herd mentality, particularly after the industry offered them the bag to promote certain titles. I'd rather watch a channel like Kenny Lauderdale who likes to talk about titles/eras almost no one discusses. It's ironic that Odd Taxi addressed the whole viral thing and even got buzz to the point of Crunchyroll awards for being different while being damn good, but is likely already forgotten by anyone entering the fray now or who took 2021 off. There is a notion that those big channels plug - 'Anime - made by degenerates, for degenerates.' There seems to be some warped pride in being cringe/an outcast, while other pockets take the residency of 'this is inoffensive enough to like, cancel this title for daring to take a stand though' (looking right at you, ANN).

Honestly, some of the most engaging intellectual discussions about anime I've been a part of over the years have been about shows others might consider "dumb." Very few things are ever that clearly on one side or the other. Even when I didn't like how a show presented something, it can sometimes be interesting to think critically about what they were trying to accomplish and why, or consider what they could have done to improve the presentation/pacing/etc. Flawed things can be especially interesting! And in general I think there's little value in the little self-depreciating ritual some people do in admitting they like "dumb" shows as a sort of "I'm allowed a flaw" excuse. No need for excuses. As you say, what people are trying to get out of entertainment can be different from person to person; I think we should celebrate when people find whatever they are looking for if it helps make their life more enjoyable (even if, whatever that is today, has moved on to somewhere else).

Honestly, the notion of flawed for stellar characters working out their issues over time in a rational sense via struggle was what drew me into Summertime Rendering. And honestly, some of the stuff that happens in that title can get silly and a bit ecchi then it flipped the serious switch with ease. But damn, it was fun, I felt that utter zest for the next episode, it was great discussion here while it aired. And as for the golden age of these forums, those fiery discussions over Code Geass were epic. Title definitely had its flaws (such is making a 25 ep title into 50) but damn, it was such a magnet to see ASAP and discuss it to the max. Back in the aftermath of the KyoAni fire, I remember friends gathered around for a night of their titles, then we marathoned Full Metal Panic Fumoffu soon after, which was the very definition of being utterly whack and definitely wasn't perfect, but damn, it was great to view with others. Group stuck around for a year going through Princess Tutu, Aria, Oregairu amongst others before the rona made us go back into hermit mode. I sometimes feel that the more daring/crazy titles can make for better discussion. If you're going into a discussion trying to justify a defense of an epic, it's bound to go haywire. Not sure it'd be a good group viewing either. Heck, one of my most amusing memories ever was when I secured the national premiere of the Eva 3.0 movie in Australia and 1,000 people rocked up. The moment where Kaoru and Shinji were playing the piano sent them into the most intense group laughter I ever saw. And in a sense, Evangelion probably induces so much conversation for being a combo of whack and flawed. But things wouldn't be the way there are today without it. It truly is a point it time where before and after are very different.