[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

Funny social media has gotten much worse in this regards in the mobs that appear. [...] And hey, at least you didn't feel targeted for liking ecchi shows; people (especially some parts of reddit/twitter) will treat you as the scum of the earth.

Obviously this is a side-topic, but I definitely think social media has changed a lot in the last ~decade or so. Before, it felt like there were a lot of communities there but they were largely kept separate of each other despite all being in this giant space -- I could start talking about some random anime and I'd get feedback from a small group of other anime fans. But now, it seems a lot more about communities colliding and fighting each other all the time. Due to certain reasons, even having an anime character as an avatar is a cause for stigma, regardless of what you may say. It just feels... exhausting. I've more or less tuned out of social media entirely as a result, even though it's not like anything happened to me personally. Maybe it's just the natural progression of anything going from niche to quasi-mainstream and attracting a lot of attention. All this is years ago preceding all the latest changes and drama, but it doesn't entirely surprise me that we've gotten to this point.

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

I don't really like to participate in discussions where people can't defend themselves, but it was inevitable that certain SoL shows would just not be critic friendly. And to be fair that era was a time of transition and somewhat volatile so anime would go in and out of people's tastes. Many people simply never adapted and their favorite medium is just not the same. I don't think that's necessarily wrong.

But I don't think their opinions are necessarily invalid, regardless of whatever convoluted approach they might have taken, unless they were taking their opinions towards other people.

I mean, this is basically the classic online chat/forum problem writ large: people stating their opinions in a way that other people take as a personal attack or slight and getting really defensive about it. This thread is basically just an extension of that, as I said last year (which is also why I, too, didn't/don't like this thread where the people couldn't defend themselves -- it's like dancing on a grave).

I think you're hitting on a key point here in that a lot of these people came from a place where their idea of what anime is, or should be, is defined within certain constraints/ideals. At that point in their life, anime meant something to them (or at least, discussion of anime did). A lot of the criticism stemmed from wanting to see anime get better (from their point of view), or wanting to further a discussion among their peers. And probably, from the perspective of some others who didn't agree with their views, that seemed a bit like "gatekeeping" -- people who liked the "bad" anime were a problem that were keeping anime from being "good." In the end, though, you can't really stop the progress of time and the natural ebb and flow of people's interests and changing trends. Eventually, things change and people just move on.

Obviously that extends to this forum too. Clearly it's a lot smaller and quieter than it used to be because a lot of people moved on (and the fact we no longer have a torrent tracker means the primary thing driving people here in the first place no longer exists). I sometimes felt in the past like this was some sort of failure, like maybe we should have done more to bring in new interest and keep things alive... but really, a lot of people have just moved on. Even if they may still enjoy anime (I still enjoy it!), at least I personally don't have as much patience and passion for the long discussions we had back in the day. But there is still value to this place as a quieter place to discuss anime and related culture with a smaller group that is a bit isolated from the much wider "noise" of general-purpose social media, so it still serves a purpose for as long as it makes sense for our kind owner to keep paying the server bills.

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

But like I've always said, smart people can like dumb shows, and just because you like smart shows, doesn't mean you are smart. In the end there is much more to entertainment, and what purpose it serves.

Honestly, some of the most engaging intellectual discussions about anime I've been a part of over the years have been about shows others might consider "dumb." Very few things are ever that clearly on one side or the other. Even when I didn't like how a show presented something, it can sometimes be interesting to think critically about what they were trying to accomplish and why, or consider what they could have done to improve the presentation/pacing/etc. Flawed things can be especially interesting! And in general I think there's little value in the little self-depreciating ritual some people do in admitting they like "dumb" shows as a sort of "I'm allowed a flaw" excuse. No need for excuses. As you say, what people are trying to get out of entertainment can be different from person to person; I think we should celebrate when people find whatever they are looking for if it helps make their life more enjoyable (even if, whatever that is today, has moved on to somewhere else).