[Applehell]

Originally Posted by BladeMancer

I mean, yeah Emilia helped him and shit but its not because she was someone to bring out his better qualities. The fact that he was unwilling to help a little girl in the beginning actually devalues Subaru morally, and it proves my point. Subaru was stuck in his own selfish mindset, only willing to leave his shell because of a girl who aligned with his idea of an ideal heroine (I think that Arc 4 illustration in his room is enough to show that he's quite "particular" about females who have silver hair). Is it a pivotal moment in some guys life to start simping out to someone he'd just met for the first time? No, take the girl out of the equation and he'd revert, which is exactly what happens in Arc 3. Subaru isn't naturally a bad person, and his dedication to saving Rem in Arc 2 proves his potential. This wasn't some change inspired by Emilia though, no one who is selfish goes from self preservation to hero-hood in the span of a few days. The change is unnatural and sudden that I'd attribute it to both a inborn nature and his ability to loop, which grants someone like Subaru more then one chance.

As you said and Tappei has said, Subaru is not bad person. Although he would rarely have strong enough ovation as he did to help someone like Emilia normally, much less risk his life for others, its not beyond him to care. Afterall its not as he didn't want to help the little girl because he's an asshole, but because of priority whihc Emilia disregard for same reasons why she helped him. Savig his life and that in turn in is what had made bug impression him. Its what later invoked the drive in him to want to pay her back and in turn help others along the way. Is there some selfishness mixed there? Yes, but he had nothing but genuinely gratitude for her and has been one of most important moments of his life, like how Subaru saving Rem was for her. It has nothing to do with first girl thing (she wasn't even the first one he met) but because Emilia put off something that should have been was more important to help out a stranger like him with nothing to offer her. Nobody not even Rem has done that for him. If not for that Subaru reflects would be would still be out on street or possibly ended up like Al. Even after arc 2 Emilia continued to be his important benefactor.

Subaru was also partially inspired into action of saving the kids (and inadvertently Rem) also because Emilia's influence which mentioned in vol 3 of the LN that is without her presence not being there directly. Even if you had say had put Rem in Emilia's place Arc 1 things would not have played out anything like it did and From Zero would have been impossible because the basis for it is gone. Subaru's change didn't occur because Rem existed or purely because she was there. It happened because of everything leading up to it and Rem happening to be right person at the right time (and being one character who is entirely in his court now whom he hadn't burned bridges with), after he emotionally exhausted and his egotrip trip had ended. Any of heroics did in first arcs were always within his means with or without flaws so he didn't revert back to anything, his better side were simply brought out by effects those around had on him.

The stuff in his room or much of his previous life has nothing to do with his feelings its never brought up so don't matter. Its as important as him having a PlayStation. Yes he has a type like everyone else, it doesn't invalidate his feelings, means he would like every girl of that type which there at least 3-of this story and they aren't even the only girls Subaru has found attractive. So he likes Emilia purely for herself traits just further that.

Uh-huh

Yeah, anyone treats getting isekai'd and meeting a total hottie an important part of their lives, but when you look at it in a certain perspective, is it really? Just merely meeting Emilia and doing good by her wasn't the thing that severely changed his stance on everything. I guess you can call what he was doing in the early arcs "connecting with the world" but its apparent from Arc 3 on that he did a shit job at it. Emilia left him, his world crumbled and all this so called "strengthening" eventually led him to try and run away from everything save the one person who didn't give up on him.

I mean From Zero didn't severely his change stances on everything either. It just made easier for him to cope with his problems some which still linger even after it. Talking things out with Rem allowed him to be more honest with Emilia which was something she believe he would be able to do. He clearly didn't do shit job connecting anyone considering he befriended Emilia, Betty, Reinhard, Felt, Rom, the villagers and even Ram extent. It s why Emilia wanted to talk things out with him to begin with instead kicking out on the street after his self-inflicted embarrassment. Its also not like he gave up immediately or didn't try to solve the issues in the arc, he just wasn't doing it in the right way which required him to reflect on what he did wrong first. All his actions were prepped by resentment at way things played out in the palace that exacerbated his anxieties about his inadequacy in being able to support Emilia and the loneliness of his circumstance that he couldn't tell her about. So used his pride and past actions to justify himself and kept running into brickwalls because of it. Subaru was the one who broke things on his own for being overly stubborn and was up to him make amends for that.

Gonna have to both agree and disagree with you there chap. Subaru was at a breaking point by the time From Zero happened, he was willing to leave everything but one thing behind and run away. From Zero is a change in both his resolve and mentality whilst being a solidification of the things he wanted to achieve before his breakdown.

He been at breaking point before man and that was also what solidified his feelings for Emilia in Arc 2. If not for that he would have quit during the mansion arc. So Arc 3 wasn't a new position for him, only context was different.

Subaru wasn't "changing". The seeds to lay the foundation of change were planted (and subsequently bloom in From Zero), but he himself wasn't changed in any profound way. As stated before, his regression is counter to whatever point you're trying to set up here.

Let me ask you something. Lets bring up Accelerator from Raildex as an example, which was more profound a change? Accelerator when he decided to protect Last Order from a bullet or when he awoke the White Wings when he finally was able to comprehend what he wanted to do, no villainy bullshit attached?
Obviously, its the damn White Wings. Even after saving Last Order, Accelerator still found himself tripping and doing bad shit, he was still killing, still maiming, still staining himself with blood. Sure, his reasons were more justifiable but it eventually drove him to go batshit in Russia which required Touma, his ideal hero, to tell him that black/white mentality was bullshit.
Of course, From Zero wasn't some reality warping game changer. Subaru was still Subaru, its up to him to fix himself. But what you're failing to understand is that this moment, whose very name has the series's title stamped on it, is obviously more pivotal to Subaru then his simping for Emilia. Whilst the beginning is important as it lays the foundations of everything, the end is the culmination of the beginning and whatever transpired before the end. From Zero was an end, and that is why it will always be more pivotal to Subaru.

I don't really see Accel's situtaion applying here. Subaru goes through vastly different development phase that partially relied his actions changing others that comeback to pay dividends for him in the future.

I have read LN that the anime covered which develed further into Subaru's thoughts. Even then I have no idea why you pretend Arc 1 & 2 were not important for his development when they provided the foundation for not FZ and rest of his relationships and later developments in S2. The anime still gives you enough to infer for that. Like you said, Subaru did not pull an completely 180 from Arc 3, he still generally doing same thing he did before, just without his neurosis screwing it up as had in the last several episodes. Even tho he doesn't feel like worthy of Emilia's affection he wants to follow his heart and rather than make excuses for being around her. As long someone supporting him in that and pick up when he falls he feels he can do so that is basis of his current relationship with Rem. FZ means nothing without anything that came beforehand is just accumulation everything before. So throwing adjectives like profound doesn't mean anything becasue those changes are not independent of his development in FZ and are required for it to exist. Otherwise Rem talking about his past actions that formed Subaru as she knew him wouldn't make any sense. As I said, this not an "either or" thing they are all connected.

For that matter only a character can decide what event had impact on his life anyway. Like take Rem for example we know how important Ram and Subaru to her not becasue we interpret that way but becasue we see it through her thoughts and actions. Meeting Emilia had a profound impact enough on him to stay course in the 2nd arc and later forgive Rem for that same reason. If not for Emilia, then Rem's stance on him wouldn't soften and leading later to her giving him a chance to trust him. These things are highlight in the story as important moments of change.

Anyway this getting far beyond the topic. My point is that nearly every single relationship is important to Subaru (Emilia & Rem being the biggest) facilitated some changes in him even before From Zero which it could only happen because he earnestly loves Emilia even underneath his pride and self-flagellation. It was catalyst for him as much as it Rem falling for him was. Tappei has never written FZ as his only moment of growth, just another level in his steps to maturing. Arc 1 was about him staring over here. Arc 2 was him becoming aware of the other things around by not taking their for granted. Arc 3, accepting his weakness and not giving up. None of arcs was silver bullet that changed him completely, but process built off each one successively. I agree FZ was one of his most important moments, nobody is saying otherwise.