[HirouKeimou]

Gonna snip through a majority of this because your side doesn't justify plot convenience (i.e. something happens randomly, most times with absolute bullshit levels of luck, which pulls the plot along) over plot development (i.e. something which is foreshadowed or is relevant in the long run).

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Yeah, that's kinda what everybody does here, express their opinions. For me, Isamu was a gigantic dick who I wanted to punch in his smug face every second he was on screen.

Isamu begins off like a dick; however, his attitude changes once he'd been injured by Guld and especially once Myung visits him in the hospital and he learns about how his two prior friends have been on "living their dreams." His character development is smooth, because it's showing how he's become "disconnected" from his friends and prior life and eventually he learns he needs to "embrace" his old life because it's part of who he is.

That's kind of how Hayate goes, too. He begins off like a reckless idiot who believes he's "all that" until he is overpowered by Keith and witnesses Messar die. At which point, he gradually begins to accept how his role in Delta Squadron will play out and the price of failure. And, of course, adds into how he no longer "dances" during his battles. It's slow, gradual, and does not affect his personality (similar to Isamu) but it's there.

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Yeah, not what I was talking about and I won't get into a discussion about the little traitors deeds in ep 21, I can already see that we'll both be wasting our time.

What I meant was her turnaround in suddenly making it all about Alto and forsaking her promise to sing for her home and friends, which led directly to the Vajra larva massacring thousands when she flipped her shit after seeing Sheryl and Alto embrace on that rooftop.

Um, I was talking about this, too; although, I more of specified her connection to Mishima and Grace during episodes 16-19 ultimately affecting her character, especially once she'd been on the battlefield directly in episode 16 and witnessed how Frontier utilized her song for killing the Vajra.

And it's not so much on it's "all about Alto," it's more about how she chooses to sing for him because she knows nothing else to do. Her ideals (singing for her home and friends or so people could know "she is here") were buried by her duties to Frontier because her songs affected the Vajra for Frontier; from a business POV, even if she so-called realistically "quit" singing, all she'd do is doom Frontier and lose all her friends regardless. Her admitting she sang for Alto all along never disregarded her initial dream because he is the first person to listen to her song, encourage her, and is her friend. Her choosing to sing for him regardless of situation is more on her focusing on a singular goal so her mind is straight and her emotions level; it's like how doctors tell you to focus on something else while you're in pain as a distraction. She does it to a level which is really quite romantic (honestly is) but does cripple her a little bit in the end when it all comes crashing down later on.

Originally Posted by magnuskn

She was assigned by the government to do it, remember? Sheryl was in sickbed and out of action for most of that time.

I'm more of talking about how neither of the characters were concerned about how technically Grace never signed off from Sheryl and is now Ranka's manager. Regardless of how she obtained her position, no character raises an eyebrow at how she's so fine with this or how Ranka is suddenly important to Frontier for this war. The closest to it is Sheryl confronting Grace in episode 18; however, at that point, I'm raising bullshit vibes for Alto not raising a dozen questions after his smack down by Brera.

It's more along the lines of the characters disconnected from their own story for a bit. There's a big change and everyone molds to it without an issue for two or three episodes. And it's... baffling... because if there's one thing Frontier did do, it's showcase how big events concerned our main trio, especially; like Ranka leaving Frontier is given numerous showings of Alto panicking, cursing himself later on, and even shows Sheryl, Ozma, and Catherine seeing her go. This... did not happen with Grace becoming her manager; it's... accepted with no argument.

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Alto bailing out was pretty much what at least 75% of the board saw coming at the end of ep 24, so I don't know how you can call that a "plot convenience". Apparently that expression just means to you "plot developments I don't approve of", so I think I'll stop discussing with you about this after this post.

...believing Alto could survive...

The dude is basically given a lucky ship to hide out in... and it's not there in his initial shot in episode 24 so again, I call bullshit. The fact he survives is definitely because of plot convenience because of course they didn't wish to kill off their MC right before the finale. And, of course, it'll come off really stupid in the end (and it does; thank god no one in Delta pulled this).

Originally Posted by magnuskn

How anyone can with a straight face make the argument that Frontier also was full of plot holes, I'll never understand. I won't try to say that they didn't rush it towards the end and that everything fit together perfectly, but in comparison to Delta, which is so full of plot holes, plot conveniences and abandoned plot elements that it resembles a swiss cheese with particularly many holes, yes, Frontier is much, much, much better.

Frontier drags like Delta does at points; regardless of your arguments, there are areas of Frontier which plain disconnected me from their main plot because it's so ridiculous, and while Delta has this, too (big massive hive mind thingy in episode 26), it's a little more restrained for a majority of the series. It's main focus is on direct conflict (meaning two nations or teams fighting each other) and is focusing less on an indirect conflict (third parties off-screen who raise hell like Galaxy did). How it closes off is not conclusive, I'll give you that, but it's more close to home on focusing on characters (even if not development for a bunch) and if time had been given to refine it a little more (keep hoping for a movie on this), you'd see it's not too much off from Frontier and drew numerous inspiration from both its good and bad aspects.